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DC Comics - The Rebirth is Here


#4944

Is that damned shirt going to become your Cracked article?


#4945

Yes but more repetitive. Todd at least varies his articles.


#4946

Just a note from the real world. Mike Moorcock found his cameo in Moore’s latest LoEG. Saturday. I think he saw it Saturday.

Beware beating details to death.


#4947

The thing is, Watchmen is really perfect as it is. It’s fully self-contained and tells you everything you need to know about its universe and characters. As such, the Before Watchmen comics just felt completely superfluous even with the talent involved.

I would also go so far as to say that since Watchmen is such a singular vision and statement on the part of Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons that I don’t think other creators have a right to add to it. I mean, yeah, I skimmed through the BW books, but I don’t accept them as legitimate parts of the story. I also don’t accept that these characters ended up in the DCU. As far as I am concerned, Watchmen begins with the cover of #1 and ends with the final page of #12.


#4948

That’s how I feel about Caddyshack.

Caddyshack 2 was unnecessary and really bad.


#4949

Caddyshack 2 is worth watching every now and then just for the WTFs.

Robert Stack looked like he was so embarassed that he might start crying at any given moment, Jackie Mason was either clueless as to how awful the movie was or he was just happy to get a paycheck, and everyone else looked like they were paid with cocaine.


#4950

The problem is DC mired Watchman in dodgy corporate territory since forever and then they did the Before minis. To those who don’t mind the fast tricks DC pulled, it is simply developing the property; to those do, it is exploiting it.

It’s likely some of that was dispelled by the creative line-up, that that made an effective counterpoint that DC did give a damn about this. But even so, buying will still be seen as endorsement, so what takes priority? Unease at corporate antics or creator support? Everyone will have a different answer.


#4951

There are other options, of course. You might be ok with DC doing what it’s doing on a moral level, but just not interested in a continuation of such a complete and self-contained story by other creators.

It’s kind of how I feel about the prospect of more Dark Knight Returns material that doesn’t involve Frank Miller. Obviously Batman is a DC character and they have every right to publish other stories about him; but at the same time, DKR is so intrinsically linked with Miller that I would find it hard to get interested in a continuation without him.


#4952

Yeah, there’s probably an entire spectrum I’ve missed out - it’ll vary from person to person.


#4953

This is fine, because Before Watchmen doesn’t change the content of Watchmen.

The Before Watchmen books are quality comics in their own right.

I don’t think Watchmen earns the right to be sacred any more than Batman does, particularly as Moore has effectively used the Charlton characters to tell a story - I don’t think the point that other characters don’t have the ‘right’ is fair.


#4954

This is the main point for me

I think everyone is well within their rights not to be interested or not to read something.

Complaining about the books being made though is a point I will always disagree with.


#4955

#4956

#4957

Screw you, CBR!


#4958

Nobody seems to mind that there are 157 Robins.


#4959

I do… Jason should’ve stayed dead and Damian shouldn’t have been (except for a couple of arcs or whatever).

It should be Dick as Nightwing and Tim as Robin. Period.


#4960

As far as Before Watchmen goes, I think it’s fair to suggest that it caused a backlash against DC, the New 52, and the creators involved that’s comparable to fan perception of Marvel post-Secret Empire. It’s not a huge coincidence that Azzarello and his Wonder Woman went from critical darlings to being dismissed and overlooked, and that Straczynski is no longer as welcome in geek circles as he had been. Where are his notable comic book projects after it? I consider his Comedian the essential book from it. And The Twelve is worth consideration as an evergreen.


#4961

I think that might be overstating things a bit. Azzarello is still a very high-profile creator involved in big hits like Damned (with Bermejo!) and DK3 and his Wonder Woman run is still spoken of very highly.

Other creators involved in Before Watchmen still maintain a decent profile too. JG Jones, the Kuberts, Jae Lee, Adam Hughes, Risso - I don’t feel like they’ve been reputationally harmed by working on the books.

I think the New 52 had its own problems completely separate from the minor backlash to Before Watchmen.

If DC really thought that publishing continuations of Watchmen had harmed them then they probably wouldn’t have put two of their big-name creators on a 12-issue sequel. :smile:


#4962

I agree… I think the most we can say about Before Watchmen is that no one really cares… :smile:


#4963

The Comedian was Azzarello, and any questions of Straczynski’s comic book quality and rep can be answered by reading the three Superman Earth One graphic novels, which were pretty mediocre at best. The first of which came after the aborted Superman Grounded nonsense and the Wonder Woman reboot that nobody remembers. I think that if anybody hurt his comics rep then it was himself and possibly DC editorial.

But yeah, JMS did Nite Owl and Doctor Manhattan for Before Watchmen. Plus the Moloch issues.