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DC Cinematic Universe - Wonder Woman, Justice League and More


#812

No, they’ve said there’s no connection. The implication, I believe from the art book, is that Batman retired after Joker killed Robin.


#813

Wrong thread


#814

The continuation thing is a fan idea, the only time where I can think that it was really used in a feature film is ‘Superman Returns’ which IS a sequel to the 1970’s ‘Superman’ with Christopher Reeve. That was because Singer is a huge fan of the 1978 movie.

Snyder’s Batman is partly Frank Miller’s but mostly Snyder’s view of the character.


#815

Fair enough, to be honest I wasn’t paying much attention.


#816

Lucky you. :wink:


#817

It is a movie that seems to distract the viewer from itself. Watching it at home, I suddenly find myself reading a book or drawing before I realize I’ve stopped watching the movie.


#818

Well, to be honest tho… with a good team of writers and ediors to reign him in a bit, Snyder could make an AWESOME Batman movie. None, even the most staunch haters, deny that the Batman v kidnappers scene was just pure awesomeness.


#819

He’d make an AWESOME trailer at least.


#820

That’s the strange thing, isn’t it? I actually like the construction of many of the scenes in the movie, but they don’t seem to connect over the long haul (and it is a long haul) of the film. I think the fight scene is probably more exciting and visually impressive than any of the fights in any of Nolan’s movies, but the engagement with the story is vastly inferior.

I honestly don’t know if Snyder could be reigned in since that is such a central part of his filmmaking intent.


#821

Affleck’s Batman is the best.
I hope he hasn’t lost the fire for Justice League.


#822

You’re kidding, right?

Is that the one in a warehouse or something where Batman uses guns and knives to kill a dozen men?

I’ve not seen it in the context of the movie, but the clip stands as the Worst Batman Scene Ever.

Maybe it’s an awesome John Wick scene and they put the wrong character in it? I can’t think of any other context in which you could describe it as “awesome”.


#823

Well i said “even the most staunch haters”, not “people still living in the 70’s”, so I’m good :stuck_out_tongue:


#824

Batman is as different from the comics as Superman in Man of Steel. In the end, it is fairly consistent if unappealing. It is an odd adaptation from the comics. I do wonder how it would’ve been received if it came out in the 90’s or if there were no Marvel movies to compare it to.


#825

#826

It’s Common, he is interested in play John Stewart.


#827

We’ve said for ages that with a good script and good producers, Snyder would be making the best movies. It just isn’t happening, he’s doing his own thing and the thing he’s doing provides some brilliant visuals but bad stories.

Which wasn’t a problem for 300, because that movie was all visuals and that was quite enough, in a druggy kind of way, but since then… Watchmen was still good, because he followed a brilliant story as best as he could, but everything else, on which he had more story input of his own, was pretty bad.

Someone posted this video way back when that I think hits on something about Snyder’s movies. He doesn’t have the patience to actually tell a story because he’s preoccupied with moments. Which is also why his trailers are so awesome.


#828

It’s a good point. I think it also points to a shift in the way audiences have started to view movies as well. Not so much a shift really, though, but an even greater difference in the emphasis in regard to storytelling.

I always remember the book Hawks on Hawks where Hawks said the secret to a great movie was “three great scenes and no bad ones.” Actually, in the interview, he really said something more like the star of the movie (John Wayne, specifically, in that case) needed three great scenes and no bad ones, but the movie on the whole needed six, but the idea still was generally the same.

In that case, he was talking about westerns and gangster movies, and when you get down to it, they weren’t trying to tell a new story. The story forms were pretty much set. The audiences knew what they were going in there for, so telling the story wasn’t really what they were selling. They were selling the moments in the story. That’s something genre filmmakers (and novelists and television shows) had in front of mind back then and still do now, obviously. Marvel superhero movies obviously follow a formula and deliver a familiar story each time. Even the sequel code was cracked with Spider-Man 2. Marvel still focuses on telling the story, but it is really the same story every time from Iron Man to Guardians to Ant Man to Dr Strange, but what matters are the specific details in the movies that set them apart.

With movies like MAN OF STEEL and THE TRANSFORMERS series, the basic framework of the superhero story is still there, but the filmmakers don’t really seem to care if the actual scenes on screen really support that framework. Honestly, that’s probably a valid approach.

You can sort of see it in the debates fans who love the films have with fans who hate them. Both groups have probably seen as many movies, comics, television shows of this kind as they’ve spent dreaming. We’re talking probably at least a third of our lives or more has been enjoying some form of fiction. Increasingly so as it becomes more available.

We know the story. The debate usually is an argument over how important that story is in the movie compared to the spectacle and scenes in the moments of the movie.

What we don’t know are the details of each particular story. This has been a part of cinema forever. The cheap stupid matinee movies from Cat Women on the Moon to IT! The Thing from Outer Space still entertained audiences primary because they delivered the moments and didn’t really dwell on the story. The story wasn’t what they were selling and even in good movies of the genre, they need to deliver the thrills more than any dramatic insights.

The only real problem I have with the Snyder-verse version of the heroes is that they promised to deliver a “real world” interpretation of the DC heroes following through on Nolan’s Batman approach. They don’t really do that.

At the same time, if you compare the DC movies to the real world. Men think they are geniuses because they are rich and can come up with the most complicated and expensive ways to fail imaginable. Men think they are heroes because they are strong and violent. Beautiful strong women love or at least like these men for no discernible reason.

I have to admit they are far more realistic than I first thought.


#829

There are two issues for me, and while I genuinely think the Snyder movies could tell their stories better, it is the stories that I don’t like in the end.

Snyder’s Superman isn’t mine and he’s never going to be. His version of Batman is still more brutal than mine but I like what I saw of Wonder Woman and I’m onboard for the new version of Lex.

Will I like Cyborg and Aquaman? Well the latter is total re-invention, so maybe. I can’t really compare him to the comic book version and that should help.

We all know Warner Bros are trying hard to get this right, but they started in a place where I don’t want to go, not then and not now. I think their moving more in a direction that I prefer, but each film will be a new test for me.

I have a feeling that Snyder’s world view will remain central though, and that’s my sticking point with his work.


#830

That’s a pretty interesting theory and to me it’s a feature not a bug. I enjoy films for their moments, I’ve spent $25 on Blu Rays just to have certain shots. It’s also a very “comic booky” approach, all panels and splash pages, which is one of the things I really enjoy and find unique about his comic book adaptations. It makes them stand apart from everything else that hits the movie screens. If people find it a problem, that’s fine, but I don’t consider it an inherent flaw.

The one thing in that video that I disagree with is that his characters lack motivation. I’ve never had that problem with any of his work, in superhero stuff or outside of it.


#831

[quote=“RobertB, post:830, topic:7572, full:true”]
That’s a pretty interesting theory and to me it’s a feature not a bug. I enjoy films for their moments, I’ve spent $25 on Blu Rays just to have certain shots. It’s also a very “comic booky” approach, all panels and splash pages, which is one of the things I really enjoy and find unique about his comic book adaptations. It makes them stand apart from everything else that hits the movie screens. If people find it a problem, that’s fine, but I don’t consider it an inherent flaw.[/quote]

Which is fair enough, and I think this is definitely one reason why I enjoy Snyder’s movies more than other people do. But I tend to agree with the clip that he doesn’t always find the right balance (Ma of Steel worked much better for me than BvS, for example).