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DC Cinematic Universe - Wonder Woman, Justice League and More



Mmph? What about the old Spider-Man TV series? They had some. And Incredible Hulk TV had Thor, Daredevil and Kingpin. They did TRY!


They do, but audiences are weird things.

It’s like when B5 was blazing that whole ‘5-year arc’ way back when. Once it was finished in 1998, you couldn’t move for SF announcements of 5-year arcs - everyone wanted to get in on it. I don’t think any of those stupidly ambitious series went anywhere, instead the next real big SF fun was Farscape and then Battlestar. I think audiences know when they’re being taken for mugs and tend to respond badly to it.


Beat you to it, JR! :wink:


I’m not sure you should be proud of that.


Don’t take this away from me. I have so little as it is.


Do you have a Cracked list about it?



I remember all the talk when ‘Iron Man’ was in the works, and then when Marvel announced they were doing a “universe”. A lot of people thought they were nuts.


Yeah, I think there’s a lot of revisionism when it comes to looking back at Marvel’s success. What now seems obvious in retrospect wasn’t seen as such a sure thing at the time, all the way through to Avengers.


You can say that about most things. People thought the Lord of the Rings movies were nuts. That Titanic was nuts. That Avatar was nuts.

The lesson is that being nuts pays big dividends.



If it paid off every time then everyone would do it. There’d be no place for conservative business thinking, but playing safe is the norm, not the exception.

Lots of people had the chance to buy a piece of Marvel and most of them said no. Even the ones that did licence characters have had mixed results. ‘X-Men’ and ‘Spider-man’ have done well, but Daredevil and Punisher reverted to Marvel after failed movies and Fantastic Four has had hits and misses, Blade has been off screen for years and we never got a Namor movie at all.


There’s a difference between being afraid and risks failing. There’s no many circumstances where a big risk was taken and it didn’t pan out. More often playing it safe is what gets you in trouble. Most recent flops were safe choices that didn’t excite anyone.


I think the revisionism has gone the other way, to be honest. I remember there was a discussion at some point about how nobody thought RDJ would make a good Iron Man when the reality was basically everyone did. I know we love the image of Kevin Fiege playing three-dimensional chess while everyone else fumbles with a checker board, but I don’t recall much if any hand wringing from fans. We’re sort of selling ourselves short by claiming otherwise.

I will cop to being wrong about some of the success in recent years, as I thought appetite would have been at least partially sated by now. Sustaining interest in the property for this long has been his (and others) greatest trick, I think.


Yeah, there’s probably an element of everyone claiming the received wisdom of the day to have been a certain thing, depending on what argument they want to make today.

I agree that RDJ was largely lauded from the start as an inspired choice - the risk element, if any, was a PR one about Marvel embracing someone with a chequered past and giving him another chance, not whether he’d be any good in the role.

You see people argue it both ways on GotG too - everyone either immediately thought it was an inspired choice that was always going to succeed, or it was ‘the little film that could’, depending on the arguments being made. On that one I think the reality was actually that it was a fairly even mix of the two.

It is funny going back to some of the comment threads on the original stories for stuff like the Cap/Thor/Avengers announcement in 2008 to see what was the real internet opinion of the day. I had a look at one earlier, and one of the big complaints was that by scheduling one movie in summer and one movie in winter they were too close to each other, and audiences were going to suffer from superhero fatigue! I’d love to go back in time and show them the 2018 superhero slate.


I don’t necessarily disagree with that - it’s often the big mould-breaking ideas that offer something new and get attention.

The trick is obviously picking which ambitious ideas will pay out and which will flop.


Ha, I will cop to being right about Guardians and Black Panther, but wrong about Ant-Man and Infinity War (in the latter case I thought it would huge obviously but not as big as it was).


I think the only prediction I ever made that was halfway accurate was that the first Deadpool had come at exactly the right time and was going to be a surprise big hit that would significantly exceed expectations.

I didn’t see Infinity War’s success coming, I thought the first Thor and Cap films would struggle, I thought Lego Batman would make a billion… I’m often not good at predicting this stuff.

(I find it much easier to predict success after it happens. :slight_smile: )


I was big on Guardians, about the same way I’m now big on Aquaman. I had thought Infinity War would follow the lower box office trend set by Ultron and Civil War, but Black Panther really reset the scale for Marvel and it became clear Infinity War was going to be massive.

I’m still dicey on the future. Star Wars fell off the cliff quickly, but right now a sub $500 million Marvel movie feels unlikely.


I am much higher on the Skrulls as a villain than some people here are. It will be like the Mission Impossible masks, with lots of surprises, and audiences will love it, I think.

That will bring us into the Fox properties. It’s hard to see the Marvel train slowing down, even with the losses of RDJ and Evans. And they can always have RDJ come back for a big return in 5 years if things aren’t trending the way they like. I only hope he makes a new Sherlock Holmes movie during the break.