I skimmed that and was like ‘Who is The Wrap? I’ve never heard of that character.’
I think it’s more the way they did it than the idea of having a shared universe at all. Marvel took their time to build up the individual franchises. Warner should’ve taken even more time. Have a second Superman movie, and the Aquaman movie, and a proper new Batman movie and so on, and then do a JLA movie - build anticipation for it, and figure out how the individual characters work before putting them together. Make sure you do the whole thing right.
That they didn’t do that again goes back to, I think, the lack of a guiding hand. Without that, they’d better have stuck to separate franchises, yeah.
Avengers was the sixth Marvel movie - Hulk, 2 Iron man, Thor, Cap and then Avengers. Took them 4 years.
Justice League was the fifth DC movie - 2 Superman, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman and the JL. And it’s not like we didn’t have plenty of Batman already. Also took them 4 years.
I know it’s a narrative that Warners rushed Justice League but they didn’t. It might feel diffrent as there were only 3 roster members featured in movies beforehand (Cap, Bats, WW) compared to 4 in Marvel (Hulk, Tony, Cap & Thor) but at best you could argue Warners missed one movie.
Considering the biggest Marvel movies are Avengers (with Black Panther being a cultural outlier) then everything suggested a JL movie was the right move. It looked like half a billion dollars was the difference. But I think JL died when Zod died - Snyder (who was the Feige of DC essentially) didn’t deliver the kind of product audiences wanted.
Black Widow was heavily featured in Iron Man 2, so I guess that’s 5. I won’t count Hawkeye’s quick Thor cameo, though.
Suicide Squad also didn’t really play into Justice League at all, unlike all the Marvel movies that were building towards Avengers, so I might argue that DC did it two movies faster which is pretty significant.
That said, they just didn’t make a good Justice League movie. That’s the real problem. It was kind of a mess. If they’d delivered a better product it would have worked even if it was the first movie instead of the 4th, 5th, or 6th.
That would hold true if the lead-in movies had been true solo movies, but they weren’t - in just the second ‘DCU’ movie WB jumped straight to a team-up of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman with cameos from all the other League members too. And they even named it with a subtitle that made it clear it was a lead-in to Justice League. Then Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad spun out of that movie rather than truly building up their own thing (although they stood well enough as solo films).
The narrative is that they rushed into the team-up/shared-universe aspect, not that they rushed into Justice League specifically.
The Marvel equivalent would have been the MCU introducing Iron Man in their first movie, then having him team up with Cap and Thor in their second (and including cameos of all the other Avengers), then doing a Hulk movie and a Cap movie and only then doing a true Avengers film. A much messier path in comparison.
Ideally, they should have built up to Justice League like this:
Man of Steel
Batman (solo, reintroduce the character for the DCEU)
Green Lantern Emerald Dawn
Superman vs Batman
Justice League (first appearances of Aquaman and Martian Manhunter)
The Justice League are more like a pantheon of modern gods, whereas the
Avengers are a strike team, so they need to intro most of the characters in their own films.
I do like the idea of BvS, where Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor team up against Superman because that’s an interesting idea that can’t be done in the comics.
I was not, however, a fan of killing Superman this early in the DCEU. I think it might have been more interesting to save Doomsday for Man of Steel 3, do the “Death of Superman” there, and bring him back as a Black Lantern in Green Lantern 3: Darkest Night, leading up to a big battle with Darkseid in Justice League 3.
Honestly, that couldn’t have made Iron Man 2 any worse.
Iron Man 2 was the third.
Eh… I don’t see a problem with how they did it in terms of structure… the only problem was their obvious lack of balls.
That couldn’t have made The Incredible Hulk any worse.
“I want people to dress up as me as black Joker, when that inevitably happens,” says Stanfield. He’s not kidding. Earlier generations wanted to play Hamlet. Today’s true artistic coup is landing the part of Batman’s lead villain. “I just think there are so many things that haven’t been touched yet in terms of how the performance can be delivered,” he says, adding, “When I make the movie myself.”
I read this in my Facebook feed and it is mixed with its points. He goes all over sometimes
It must be fun to be such a miserable person that you have to write articles all about how everyone should stop enjoying the things they enjoy mainly because you don’t like them.
He’s wrong about them all being terrible.
And it’s clear that he’s being very petty - especially with that preview text.
But I still find it unbelievable the awards push for Black Panther.
I think the other aspect, linked to this is no one likes a cheap bastard who watches someone innovate, take the risk, get the payoff and then wants a piece of but without doing all of that. Sometimes being first counts and I think it did here. DC and WB looked like jumpers on the bandwagon, having risked nothing and I don’t think the audience approved.
The sad thing is, with a bit more time and care, I think they could have really sold the ‘gods among us’ angle as that really set the DC films apart from Marvel. Where Marvel had superpowers but to a degree relatable people, DC upped the ante on the powers much, much more thus the fight in MoS that wrecks Metropolis, with skyscrapers being used as clubs by Zod. I think they’re sticking with it for Aquaman and they should.
A missed opportunity on Justice League was showing the global response to Superman being back after being dead. A world that freaked out over alien life being proven should be going nuts over an actual resurrection.
What an asshole.
I don’t know about this. Marvel and DC have a long history of ripping each other off. Movies have a history of ripping each other off.
Really, in terms of risk it fell on Sony (Spidey), Fox (Xmen, FF), and to a lesser extent Warners (Nolan). Marvel waited until superhero movies were pretty safe bets before even getting in the pool.
Fox was the first to have an expanded universe I suppose with the Wolverine set of movies. Marvel though did have the vision to have 3 different franchises come together in a single movie. It wasn’t really a risk - the risks were small once Iron Man was a hit, and it wasn’t visionary. But they did make Avengers in an industry that had sequels and spin offs but no ‘event’ movies.
Well, except for Freddy vs Jason and Aliens vs Predator.
Oh yeah, what Marvel did was cool, but I don’t think it was risky. As soon as you saw Nick Fury in Iron Man, the same summer that Dark Knight banked a billion-plus, any of us would have bet our life savings that Avengers was going to be a hit.