Comics Creators

DC Cinematic Universe - Wonder Woman, Justice League and More


Nah, their MO is desperate intervention after poor reception.


I would buy that if they’re intervention had somehow made things better in some way. Historically, it has only made them worse.


I didn’t say ‘successful intervention.’ :smile:


Non-successful intervention is just micromanagement. :wink:


Warners, like most managers, want to delegate and then come back periodically to check on progress.

Disney/Marvel micromanage, but traditional studios usually hand their filmmakers a lot of rope and hope they don’t hang themselves. Day to day management is handed off to the producers.


I do think Warners has been their own worst enemy with regards to their attempt at a DC movieverse. I don’t know how hands on they are or aren’t, but the impression I get is that they essentially forced a MoS sequel to become BvS (a pretty major mandate if that’s the case) and then when audience reaction turned sour on Snyder after that movie they seem to have panicked and tried to change up Justice League. Still, whatever the level of involvement the studio has had, I think it’s only had a negative impact on the movies. So I’m not sure it’s micromanagement so much as poor management. They want desperately to achieve what Marvel and Disney have, but they don’t know how to do it so what we’re left with is a hacked up copy of what Disney has with Marvel. And it’s not like Disney has the formula down either, as is evidenced by their attempts to do similar things with Star Wars. It’s a hard thing to pull off.


Studios don’t generally have a creative plan, they have business plans.

You can find a lot of annecdotes about this, but Kevin Smith talking about his time writing a Superman movie is a great example.

He was pitching Superman ideas to room after room of studio executives, each group getting progressively more powerful, until he reached to head of the studio. He makes it clear when he tells this story that they had no set opinion on what a Superman film should be, and barely any familiarity with the character. He had to explain to them that Kal-El was Superman’s Kryptonian name for example.

Finally he pitched to the studio head, and was hired to write a script, but only after he went to see the producer of the film. It was the producer’s job to develop the script with Smith and then make the movie.

Unfortunately that producer was Jon Peters, who is legend for all the wrong reasons, but he was in charge of the project anyway.

That’s how studios work 99% of the time.


Now, I have to post this:


Yes, you do. :rofl:


Let’s not forget how WB also meddled heavily in SQ, and look how it ended up… u_u

Also, the funny thing is Snyder was rather involved in Wonder Woman (it was probably his idea to go with WWI as the setting :smile: ) , so it’s not like he was just screwing up or anything…

Anyways, I’m still waiting for the JL Snyder cut =P


I liked Leto’s Joker; his version of the character fit that world.
But totally agree on the rest though. Phoenix as Joker sounds fantastic to me.


Yeah me too… besides the super stupid tattoos, I kinda liked what Leto was going for…


I could have done without the grill, too but he looked super creepy with his eyebrows shaved off.


Character design aside, I had no problem with Leto’s Joker. He did a fine job with what he was given, he just wasn’t give much. But would I want to see a movie about that version of the character? Not really.


Well I’m not interested in a joker solo movie period, wether it’s phoenix, leto or even ledger’s joker.


Much better than it would’ve done, if they hadn’t.

I’m on Warners side for that, and I like Ayer, but I’m on their side.


Agreed. I didn’t even mind the ink and the grill. The pimped out urban crime boss fits the DC film universe they were (are still?) using well. I also liked that Leto’s Joker was creepy and calculating, and less manic than he could have been.

I’m also a fan of the DCEU being darker and grittier than the MCU. I thik it needs to differentiate itself from the MCU, and that’s a good way to do it. If the MCU is aimed at twelve year olds, then go darker and meaner with the DC characters and go after older teens with a sexy Harley Quinn and a Superman who isn’t afraid to break a neckmor two when his hand is forced. The kids who are into the MCU now will get older and be drawn to the edgier stuff as they get older.

It also mirrors the comics I grew up with in the 80s, where Marvel was always tonally consistent, but DC wasn’t afraid to put out things like The Dark Knight Returns, Killing Joke, and the titles that laid the foundation for Vertigo like Moore’s Swamp Thing.


‘Why don’t they want to take one of these characters and just make a lower budget film about it, a movie but a character study, and why not take one of the villains?’

I am not a huge fan of the idea of Phoenix as the Joker, nor of Todd Philips, who seems as wrong for this as a director can possibly be, but I do like the approach described there. I’ll be there if it looks any good.


Here’s how I’d write a Joker movie. It starts with falling into the chemical vat - we really don’t care before that. Then it’s all angsty and noir and Ingmar Bergman until a crime is attempted, where Batman (we think) beats the crap out of him (it’s very fast) and then an escape. More angst, a bit of sturm und drang, another attempted crime, a gloved fist against an ivory jaw, waking up in jail, a jailbreak, a psychotic break and the laughter begins. True origin, after some trying and trouble and fighting, he determines nothing matters unless it ends up in a battle with the Bat.

There is a humorous ending.


Batman throws a cream pie in his face?