He was talking to the man’s mother. It was more to just reassure her than anything else.
Yes. Back in the 1940’s, Batman killed people in weird 1940’s comics. He also encouraged people to “slap a jap” and buy war bonds. The character has evolved, and become more concrete. If Batman starts killing bad guys indiscriminately, he’s just James Bond and/or the Punisher in a bat-cape. All the worst parts of crappy 90’s comics, on the big screen, forever altering his zeitgeist and public perception of him.
That’s a stretch further than my childhood stretch Armstrong,
I think it makes sense, forget about Bats and Supes for a while and focus on other characters. They seem to be doing that with Aquaman, Wonder Woman 2, and Shazam. Now all they have to do is make sure the movies are good. I think a lot depends on wether Aquaman captures people’s imagination.
Then maybe in 5 years time do a soft reboot for Superman and Batman.
Just pivot back to standalones.
Cinematic Universes are a dumb idea.
Yeah with 4 movies in the all time box office top ten that idea was a huge mistake.
The shared universe isn’t the problem. Making Batman and Superman movies isn’t the problem - people love those characters. It’s a fake talking point anyway - Marvel didn’t make Iron Man because they chose to - they did it because it was all they had. We’d had nearly a decade of Spidey and X Men movies. We’d had 3 Spideys, 3 X Men, 2 Fantastic Four, Hulk, Punisher, Daredevil, 3 Blades and a fucking Ghost Rider before Iron Man was trotted out.
And the focus on one concept is silly too. Of course Disney would prefer to face just one more superhero movie each year now that they’re going to own everything and give us a new Marvel movie every couple of months.
The returns are huge, but I maintain that making just a good movie without the universe would have made equal measure. It’s just added a sort of safety net.
In a creative sense, a cinematic universe can only be stifling.
Mathematically that doesn’t make sense. The Avengers movies clearly have revenues at a degree higher than the single character movies.
And 2/3 were pretty dire and it’s only real legacy is this ever-accelerating race to crack the billions.
People forget. Those were the Dark Times. Before the Feige. Before the Disney!
Yeah, that’s the only legacy that matters. Disney ain’t Van Gogh creating art to enrich the world. They may as well be McDonalds, every cinema ticket a Happy Meal. Same for all these blockbusters. So by the only measure that matters - money - the shared universe is a proven model at this point.
Spider Man 2 is the best superhero movie ever made. Wash your mind out with soap and get down on your knees to pray forgiveness to the Raimi God. I mean you say people forget, but you’re forgetting too.
Ang Lee’s Hulk is still pretty amazing.
Flawed, but definitely a highlight of that era.
Ah, the Molina Effect!
What? Me forget?
Forget, what, now?
I agree the shared universe isn’t the problem, it’s just they couldn’t get Superman and Batman right. Which is just an opinion of course, other people may love Cavill and Batfleck which is fine.
So what would you propose? Continue with Cavill and Batfleck and hope they get it right this time, or do it all over?
I’ve said before they’re in a really difficult spot because they’ve lost the faith of the movie public. And their new moves don’t inspire confidence. I think there’s good enough faith for another Wonder Woman to do well, and maybe Aquaman and Captain Marvel will be wonderful, funny, engaging and insightful movies, but I’m not sure. Added to that DC have blown their load all over these crappy TV shows - there’s hundreds of DC characters in media now, it’s far more prevalent than Marvel. And I don’t think lead character can occupy both spaces. So there’s lots of people who are simply off the table.
I’d start a space franchise centered around Lobo starring the Rock. It should be funny, loud, the kind of movie a 13 year old boy would love.
I’d make more Suicide Squad movies featuring that core cast with a couple of extras. Make use of Will Smith before he gets too old. Will Smith is still a cinematic star.
I’d do a Mr Mircale movie in a second and create a new great hero with a relative unknown actor. Epic movie making with worlds like we’ve never seen before.
I’d crack on with Henry Cavell while he’s there and doesn’t get too old. He should focus mainly on defending Earth from elements of Krypton. Superman should always save and day and no-one should ever die. He’s got to be a God among men, not a man struggling with being a God.
I’d use Booster Gold to form a misfit Earth based JLI team, a dirty dozen kind of thing - suicide squad without the hip hop. A Guardians kind of movie but with better characters than what they used in Legends of Tomorrow.
I’d have Wonder Woman continue fighting old gods trying to influence the new world.
Captain Marvel should be ‘Big’ for superheroes, but I’m pretty sure they’re going to screw it up.
As for Batman you need to recast and keep him as the sheriff of Gotham. Gotham shouldn’t be a shithole needing to be saved like Nolan’s view, it should be a great city that needs protected. Make him a little more Spiderman, a hero saving his dirt because all the other superheroes are fighting bigger battles. Give him adversaries that are much more powerful than him, but he still finds a way to win.
I agree that the shared universe isn’t the problem, nor are the characters. Marvel/Disney just tapped into a winning blockbuster model for superhero movies. WB or AT&T or whatever they are now haven’t figured it out. People loved Wonder Woman but didn’t buy into Justice League. I’m not sure it’s any more complicated than Justice League was a complete mess of a movie.
I think all of that is great except I think the current Superman saga is dead in the water after BvS and Justice League.
Batman could work, but I kinda think Gotham being this troubled menacing place is quintessential to the Batman story. I know DC gets a lot of shit for making things “dark” but Batman is the one character that works as a dark brooding hero. He should be the exception. I have some issues with the Nolan movies, but the way the character of Batman himself was depicted was perfect for me.
But maybe another “lighter” take could work, if they get the right people with the right vision to do it. i think a lot depends on just getting the right people. The right director, the right writers, the right Batman. I think Marvel owes a lot of their success to this principle. Their casting has been consistently great (in my opinion, I know people might disagree.)
edit: I know not everybody loves Grant Morrison, some people may not like his long Batman saga, but I think his take on the character itself was genius. (Started with Morrison’s JLA run.) If DC wants to take the movie in a new direction, they could do worse than study how Morrison depicted the character. Likewise for All-Star Superman if they want to reboot that character. Maybe they could use Morrison as some kind of creative consultant on the movies?
He’s pitched movie takes on DC characters in the past, they just haven’t gone for them. Although I think he made a point of saying in his Supergods book that the eventual direction they went with Batman Begins was very close to what he suggested with his pitch. (Although how much truth there is in that, I don’t know.)