Comics Creators

DC Cinematic Universe - Wonder Woman, Justice League and More


We are really not that hard to please, as the Marvel movies’ successes indicate. Very few of them are great…most of them are just “pretty good” or “solid,” where the DCEU movies are more “what-the-fuck-were-you-thinking?” But it’s okay to dig the swing-and-miss that is the DCEU. At least they swung. Attempting to justify its failure by rationalizing its bullshit defeats the argument for it, though. I hated BvS for a long time…then one rainy winter day I re-watched it, and realized that it was glorious crap… and glorious crap can be quite great, if you’re in the mood for it. And that warehouse scene…

The danger is, I think, as a pop culture population, attempting to justify good-crap by saying “well, we should simply be greatful that it exists.”

It’s okay to like bad movies.


The hilarious part is that I do like them, and I believe they’re thoroughly good movies, and think most of the moviemaking in Avengers movies is crowd-pleasing…hot garbage. I mean, just absolutely terrible moviemaking. But I will not go down to the mat arguing this, because I think it’s pretty clearly subjective. Even if everyone is thoroughly convinced that these things are clearly the reverse of my opinion… I don’t care. It’s okay to have a different opinion. You can see from all those favorite movies threads exactly what I like, and the large quantities of what I like. A lot of it is stuff other people hate, or rate very, very differently. Great! Clearly there’s some different criteria at play. That’s all I’m seeing here.


I think we’re on the same page fundamentally but far apart on what our definitions of good, bad, and crap are, which is fine.


VI think that’s fine, too. But, where I think the debate on MoS is somewhat grounded in an actual artistic difference of opinion, the debate about Justice League, which is a film that was pretty clearly mangled by studio interference and multiple directors and god knows what else, is less grounded in difference of opinion and more grounded in rationalization of crap.

I’ve done this, too. Age of Ultron, for instance, was a shit movie, clearly manhandled by producers to achieve maximum, I dunno…toyectiveness? It was a bad film…but I liked it, and rationalized m liking of it, because it hit the right notes for me, despite how bad the fx in the first 5 minutes were, or how shitty the pacing was. I liked seeing Quicksilver slo-mo Punch Cap in the face, and Vision being born, so I dug the clearly shit movie, publicly.

I suspect that the people that dug, say, ‘Hush,’ and the Arkham video games and other stories like that also like the DCEU’s output. Nothing wrong with that. I love the Arkham games, and Hush was, y’know…it was Hush. Not much my thing… but if it’s yours, cool. But there has to be a point where difference of artistic opinion takes a backseat to being able to acknowledge that shit is indeed, shit.

Justice League was just awful. Two directors, weak fx, broadly apparent studio interference… I mean, good fucking God. It undeniably had good moments, but I cringe at the idea that we, as fans and lovers of the source material, should be greatful that it ever came into existence, and should as such ignore its glaring (GLARING) flaws. We should be okay with the idea that we should demand quality.


My bar isnt “great” for most films. I’m looking for somewhere in the neighborhood of good, and with superhero films (between Marvel, DC, Fox, and Sony) I’d say more than half (post-2005) reach that level easily.

For me, roughly speaking, the only MCU film I kind of dislike is Incredible Hulk. Ant-Man, Iron Man 2, and Thor are just OK, Avengers: Age of Ultron and Thor: The Dark World are fun, but flawed, and everything else is very good to great.

For the DCEU, Man of Steel is great, Wonder Woman is very good, BvS is interesting but a mess, Justice League was more coherent than I expected, but not good, Green Lantern was bad, and Suicide Squad was hot garbage.

Logan is the only X-film that hits “great” for me, while Deadpool, X2, First Class, and DoFP are good, The Wolverine is good, but falls apart in the end, and X-Men Origins: Wolverine is bad, and Apocalypse is shit from start to finish. X3 isn’t very good, but I like it.

The Garfield Spider-Man films range from mostly good to really bad in the span of two movies. And the Trank FF was 2/3 of an okay movie that turned so bad after that that it ruined any good will it had earned from me up to that point.

Did I miss any?


(There are four Fantastic Four movies)


Dude. I’m a huge FF fan. Don’t hurt me any more than the world already has.


At least the Corman one has cool makeup and costumes!


I’ll one up you with the first Fox one…there’s that super cool moment where Sue says to Johnny “Don’t even think about it,” and he responds “I never do” and then jumps off of a building and shouts FLAME ON!" and then proceeds to race a missile, or something.

Comic movie perfection…in one of the shittiest comic movies of all time.


I don’t know if it’s just a case of them seeming a bit old and dated now, but the Tim Story FF movies aren’t as bad as that. They’re reasonably mediocre superhero movies that skew fairly young, but they’re far from being actively terrible. They have quite a few fun moments and Evans does well with Johnny Storm.


Is anyone defending Justice League??? What a turd…

Anyways, I think most SH are mediocre to entertaining… although, I gotta say, most of them are “good” in the sense of production at least… it’s hard to call something “bad” or a “turd” like I just did, when the reality is that they’re usually well cast, well acted, with good FX (mostly) and well made overall. I mean, there are centainly MUCH MUCH worse movies every year in every single regard.

That said, Justice League is a turd :smile:


Apparently not, since you managed it twice.




Did it get easier the second time?





It didn’t get easier the second time for Daniel Craig, Quantum of Solace was a turd.

(Quanturd of Solace?)


What’re your 3 or 4? I assume Man of Steel is one of those.


I will leave that to your imagination.



From what I know of you, I would assume Burton’s Batman, Man of Steel and maybe the first two Raimi Spider-Man films.