I have resisted making that joke for like a day now
This is not what we’re debating.
I’m gonna assume this is directed at me (or at least partly… if not, feel free to ignore my post) and say:
What the actual fuck?
Okay first of all, I only like 2 out of those 5 movies. So yeah… =/
Secondly, I’m not making “the case that the world is wrong” (at least not this time)… but merely making the case that Jhonny’s wrong with his premise that “serious SH movies are a stupid idea and a waste of money” and that “family-friendly movies do better” and those sort of things he was saying upthread…
You know what? go read the posts… I mean, if you’re gonna start throwing shade at people, at least get the context of the conversation right… and that goes for everyone, not just Sam.
I agree that it’s silly to claim that ‘dark’ superhero movies automatically do better than ‘light’ ones. It’s all about finding the approach that works best for the character.
We’ve seen very successful ‘dark’ superhero movies with things like Dark Knight and Logan. We’ve seen successful ‘light’ ones with Avengers and Iron Man and most of the MCU movies. We’ve even seen great success with ‘light’ but resolutely adult fare like Deadpool.
And we’ve seen movies where the wrong approach has been taken to certain characters and the movies have suffered as a result.
I don’t think it needs to become yet another MCU vs DCU argument retread, as there have been successes and failures on both sides.
If you want to add Justice League and Batman Begins to my post rather than dismissing it, feel free. It’s not like they did poorly by most metrics, they both beat Logan which you cited as a hit. Although you may need to adjust BB for inflation as it was a different era.
To be honest the main objection I have always had with @Jacowboy on DC movies is the continued use of SQ as an abbreviation for Suicide Squad.
I mean where does this kind of thing end? We just use any random letters in a title?
I really enjoyed WO (Wonder Woman), IN (Iron Man), UY (Guardians of the Galaxy).
It needs to be stamped out now!
No, I wasn’t dismissing your post and I don’t really have a horse in the race either way, especially when it comes to the numbers and identifying what films are hits and misses individually.
I care as much about whether the movies are good or not, as I think that’s as reliable an indicator of success as anything, especially when you pull back and take a wider view than just the profitability of single movies.
To address the films you mention though, I thought Batman Begins was very good (and to tie it back to my point, even though it wasn’t seen as a great commercial success it was a good movie that can take some of the credit for setting the stage for the two billion-dollar Batman movies that followed it) and I haven’t seen Justice League yet.
BvS feels like the opposite of Batman Begins to me - a commercially successful film that nevertheless seemed to poison the well for DCU movies, leading to Justice League underperforming and pretty much dooming the DCU in general. You could look at BB and BvS on paper and say that BvS made more money, but taking a wider view I think BB did them a lot more good.
It will end… when I die
It’s the S’Qwad… get your hip on, you old fart =P
I prefer FR.
It’s gotten so bad that I’ve accidentally started using it as well, just from exposure.
You know what? you’re right… makes it sound like a french fart, which by definition is the classiest kind of fart… so yeah… you got my seal of abbreviation approval (or SBA) =P
My legacy has been cemented!
To be honest I didn’t see that Jacowboy had posted some long thing after me and that you were responding to him moreso than me.
I honestly was trying to keep Batman Begins out of the discussion as it’s such an outlier in terms of what it was trying to do and when it came out, which was part of the reason for my “cherrypicking” the numbers I did (can’t speak for Jacowboy).
My only point was that there is no way to tell if, say, BvS were family friendly but still considered of roughly the same quality (I hate these metrics but say it still had 27%/63% critic and audience numbers on rottentomates), would it really do any better than $830 million global? We’ll never know but I am not so sure and think there is a chance it could do worse.
If I wanted to cherrypick numbers to prove this point I would also bring up that Green Lantern and Lego Batman, their two most family friendly movies, are also their two biggest box-office failures.
I agree, but it’s where the hypothetical becomes a bit meaningless for me because by changing that variable you’d be effectively making a completely different movie.
I think it demonstrates that you can’t simply draw a straight line between tone and quality and artistic success and financial success, because there are so many different factors at play that dictate these things.
We’ll come back to this after the Teen Titans Go movie comes out.
This will all be blitzed by the coming Valiant Universe.
Starting with Harbinger (HN) they’ll race past a billion, then we’ll get X-0 Man of War (AF) which will surpass Star Wars and then Faith (IH) will blow Avatar out of the water because the lead is a fat woman and the soundtrack will be gender neutral.
You people know nothing, hanging on to films like Batman Begins (MI).
My point is that serious DC superhero movies are a stupid idea and waste of money as they have never been as successful as the broader versions of the characters that appeal to children as well as adults.
Deadpool and Logan make sense as R-rated films because violence and mature themes are natural for their characters and properties. Watchmen makes sense as an R-Rated movie, even though it really doesn’t make sense as a movie. It is completely out of character for the Super-Friends to be dark, violent and tragic.
On top of that, Warner Brothers actually owns those characters compared to their other super-successful franchise Harry Potter. It would be a bad idea to make a Shazam movie, for example, and not try to appeal to the same kids who love Harry Potter as well as those interested in slightly more sophisticated and mature movies like Fantastic Beasts.
Yeah that’s great and all but Lego Batman came out around the same time as the most violent Batman ever… none was confused, none was shocked, none was angry… Your argument doesn’t make sense because there’s no reason why WB can’t do both… like they just did and could keep on doing with other movies and tv shows, etc…
Also, please… DC characters haven’t been the Super Friends in decades… who wants that campy shit?
I think Superman works better for me as an idealistic character than a realistic, grim 'n gritty character. Of course the darker portrayal will still have its fans.
I agree with Johnny this is probably true for most of the DC stable except Batman.