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DC Cinematic Universe - Wonder Woman, Justice League and More


#3275

Is that anecdotal or is there empirical evidence behind that? Genuinely curious. I can’t imagine a group of girls going to see Spider-man on a night out, for example. In the same way they would the latest Fifty Shades movie, or Pitch Perfect.


#3276

Still, it’s hard to think of any genre that doesn’t sexualize men and women more than the teen dramas of Gossip Girl or Riverdale and those shows are sustained by women in their audiences.

I think people generally don’t mind sexual objectification in sex scenes. If anything, general audiences seem to want their actors to be sexier every year. We’re constantly confronted with a new line of eye candy, boy and girl, every new TV season.

But viewers also want the sexy characters to be identifiable and effective in dramatic scenes or action scenes. Having overly sexy Amazons is not going to turn off anyone, but having overly sexy stupid and pointless Amazons will.


#3277

Purely anecdotal but I find the audiences here for superhero film are a fairly even gender split and there are groups of girls.


#3278

And I was under the impression that demographics for superheroes generally, in comics, television and film, was a pretty even split already. Like literally 50% of comic book readers are already women. I’m sure that doesn’t mean they are all superhero fans but it seems likely that shows like The Flash, Supergirl, Jessica Jones and even Gotham and Green Arrow probably depend on a large audience of women fans.


#3279

Hard to find actual statistics around here, but I’ve spoken to literally thousands of university students and can discern no gender bias towards superheroics here, and it’s the general impression from a) literally ever movie showing I’ve gone to in the region b) the general tone of discussion of superheroes here and c) the omnipresence of marketing. But still, it’s really the feeling I’ve gotten from speaking to thousands of students that has surprised me the most. The same goes for most other action movies (Fast and Furious, Transformers), so it just seems that some of the gendered biases that are common in the West just might not be the same over around here, but I’d have to leave it to researchers with far better resources than mine to explore it more deeply :slight_smile:


#3280

That’s a horrible thing to say. What you are doing is body shaming.


#3281

Well, once again, if it’s equal-opportunity sexualisation and not objectification of the female body in particular, I wouldn’t see that as problematic, at least not for the reason discussed. I can’t talk to how either of those shows treat depictions of the body, because I haven’t seen either, but to pick another example: True Blood was a very sexualised show, but one of the exceptions in that it really had more of a female gaze - the women were often less phyiscally perfect than the men, and shown in less obviously sexualised poses. It was kind of fun to see the reversal there, but even then the men were sexualised, but - I think - not objectified in the way we’ve been talking about.


#3282

Being overweight massively increases risk of heart disease, diabetes, some cancers (I believe) & stroke not to mention other less life threatening ailments, aches and pains.

I’m not saying anything my doctor hasn’t said to me to get me to lose weight for my own benefit.

It’s for people’s own good they lose weight as whatever gets them off their asses to do it is to their benefit - I include myself in this.

Focusing on hurt feelings costs lives, it’s the wrong area to be focussing ones attention on.


#3283

Thank goodness Megan Fox is here to prevent that by bending over the hood of a car with her ass up in the air. :slight_smile:


#3284

I think this has drifted off topic, but I’d like to point out that it’s even drifted further off than it did to begin with.

Inspiring people is a good thing, presenting a positive body image that motivates people to make changes in their life that they will benefit from is a good thing.

But that’s not what objectifying does. The word is negative because it means (in this context) to treat or reduce a person to the status of an object.

Watching super fit people being super fit is not automatically objectifying. The Olympics do not objectify the athletes and superhero movies don’t have to either.

But they can, and when they do, it’s not inspirational and it’s not something that should be ignored.

Because the people who make those movies can do better, just like the rest of us.


#3285

It doesn’t matter how people get motivated

If they et motivated for health reasons, that’s great, that’s they reason they should be excecising and eating right

But if they get motivated because they want to have a body like the people they see on screen or are attracted to, it’s a means to the same end.


#3286

Megan Fox is a good example though. You look at that shot and think obviously she’s being objectified. BUT against the context of the whole movie, she’s as well developed a character as any of the other blockheads in what is really a very asexual film. I mean, I honestly can’t imagine any of the characters in Transformers ever actually having sex or even going on a date.

It’s hard to discern the difference between sexualized and objectified in any but the most pornified cases where the whole point is sexual stimulation. Models and actresses make their careers out of meeting this market demand, and it seems harder each year to meet that demand as well. I wouldn’t want to hinder the careers of the women who can do it.


#3287

I’ll be surprised if anyone who watches these films thinks of the actors playing the roles as objects

I’m sorry but it’s a load of shite.


#3288

I’m just breaking your balls.

I never know what to say in these debates except I think it’s OK for people who fancy women to enjoy looking at their butts in movies or tits in comics, as long as they understand that it’s a fantasy story and don’t take those ideas of women into the real world. And I think the people who don’t like it have a good point too.

Anecdotal evidence but I have definitely heard a lot more women breathlessly talk about Hemsworth than I have men talking about Gadot. Marvel Studios is well aware they’re throwing a hunk a beefcake up there on the screen for women and gay men to ogle. I mean they didn’t cast Seth Rogen for the part.


#3289

Yeah, honestly, for me most of the images are visually pleasing, but not sexually stimulating. That drives a lot of filmmaking and cinematography (and comics, too). Those images and poses draw the eye because it feels good to look at them.

Is it a conditioned response? Or something more inherent as symmetry seems to be attractive universally.

Also, of course, any body type can be sexualized or objectified.


#3290

We all know how that worked out for Green Hornet.

Answer: Fantastically


#3291

I think the issue is Chris Evans doesn’t really look like he does in that Captain America scene. Henry Cavill doesn’t look like he does in Man of Steel. Gerry Butler doesn’t like how he does in 300. Those scenes were particular moments, moments they’d dieted and trained for. Pumped themselves up for. Some starve themselves for a couple of days for a scene. It’s not natural. It’s not what they really look like.

It’s great to inspire people to get healthy, but it’s not great to have unrealistic expectations. Not everyone can look like Superman or Wonder Woman. You can’t build a conversation around ‘you could look like that if you weren’t so useless’. We live in a world where people are most self critical and have lower self esteem than ever it seems, where what you look like defines you more and where it matters much more than with previous generations. It’s a tough place.

On the other hand going after superheroes is a bit silly. It’s a fantasy world. It’s like going after elves or angels. The premise is to create people who aren’t normal.


#3292

Starve and massively dehydrate. As mentioned a few conversations back Jennifer Lawrence refused to discuss her regime for playing Mystique because she didn’t want any young fans copying it as it was potentially dangerous.


#3293

It is kind of strange to see people denying that something like sexual objectification in movies exists at all in a time in which constant news are breaking of men in showbusiness denying women’s rights as persons and abusing them as sexual objects in real life.


#3294

Taking positive external motivation to get in shape is not fat shaming at all. And that’s not what Chris’ point is either.