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DC Cinematic Universe - Wonder Woman, Justice League and More


#2973

You’re getting that with Justice League though, aren’t you?


#2974

A group of superheroes with their own movie franchises, with some others who don’t gathered together to fight an enemy from another world, directed (at least partially) by Joss Whedon.

No. I expect it will be very different. :smirk:


#2975

No, not really. There are wonderful JL comics out there, such as by Giffen and DeMatteis (reading it now and love it) or by Mark Waid (tower of Babel). Filmmakers could use them as template.


#2976

I think that stepping away from a cinematic universe is a great idea.

Cinematic universes are a stranglehold to properties.


#2977

If you can do it well, a shared universe is great - see Stargate.

But, in cinema terms, Marvel have that sewn up and trying to compete with them on that is a fool’s errand. If DC go for a nice, neat set of a story running:

  • Man of Steel
  • Batman vs Superman
  • Justice League 1 & 2

And that’s it, it’d make for an effective and, if JL delivers, a very marketable quartet box set.

Outside of that? Tell the best story with character X you can, if it has Easter eggs or guest appearances, fine, but don’t shove them in for the sake of it.


#2978

Stargate and TV shows are a different minefield since they are shows that need only the base concept and can run off multiple episodes from a central premise.

In movie cinematic universe terms - it’s been all about building up to something. And that the properties chosen need to fit best in the overall scheme. And it’s honestly just limiting what you can do. I feel the same about the MCU.

Plenty of MCU fans want some off the wall or unique movies, but they’ll never get them unless they get lucky like with GOTG that sets the movie far away from the rest of them.

Cinematic universes in movies are a fool’s errand in general.


#2979

Post-Infinity War or whatever they’re calling it.

Sure, they could go and do Phase 4 and so do on a cinematic scale what Marvel comics have been doing for the last few years and encounter the same result - failure.

I think people are fine with an overall structure into which stories with their own big bangs, while hinting at a bigger boom to come, works well - first time around. A second run? Nope, nowhere near so much. By 2019 Marvel will have done about 20 movies in 14 years, that’s more than a big enough achievement. Moving to a more relaxed style would work for them at that point and won’t piss off the audience.


#2980

So yeah, relaxing down the cinematic universes is a good idea.
Like I said.

It’d be great if you are right, and I hope you are. Right now, that’s 11 years of movies being limited.


#2981

In some respect yes, but we’ve seen what happens when all limitations are taken off a director on a series, including any notion of adhering to material established by the same director!

Yes, I give you George Lucas and the Star Wars Prequels.

Then again, my expectation of a Marvel movie is 2 hours of fun entertainment and that’s it. In this respect DC have been more ambitious, by pursuing a line of ‘gods among us’, how does the world really respond to that? So far their achievement of their ambitions has been flawed, but JL might nail it.


#2982

I don’t mean limitations of content of the movie exactly, but rather limitations on the movies being made and how.

It’s a more enticing prospect to think about comic movies being less beholden to a plan and more about themselves. That’s what endeared Wonder Woman’s movie to me - it felt like a movie so completely about itself.


#2983

I think that might be what Fox are heading towards following the success of Deadpool and Logan.

If you’d told me two years ago there was going to be a Cable movie I’d have been very sceptical.


#2984

I’m personally fine with DC breaking up into individual properties and standalone movies. The DC characters are an odd mismatch that weren’t necessarily conceived to interact the way the Avengers were. And as has been discussed, the fact that their most popular characters (Batman & Joker) are so different in tone from everything else makes it a weird fit that works better in the comics and cartoons.

And besides, the extended universe concept is getting more lame by the minute. All the Avengers stuff in the new Spidey movie just felt like bloat to me, and even the most pro-Marvel-cinema friends I have are starting to remark that each movie is just feeling like a trailer for the next one. And when you’ve got these tenuous Kong/Godzilla connections and an attempt to pull a Tom Cruise Mummy in with a Johnny Depp Invisible Man it feels like the whole concept has run its course. Just tell a freaking story.


#2985

It’s hard to believe that the first Avengers movie was only five years ago.

Man of Steel came out a year later.

Marvel have had the head start to lay their infrastructure (on and off the screen) that it will take anyone else a lot of time to catchup. By the time they do, I feel Marvel will have moved on or in a different way that it will seem “old” when another studio does it.

I really hope after the next two Avengers movies, Marvel moves to a stand-alone model where other characters can appear as guests or cameos and not have to build to some big “event”.


#2986

Marvel’s film company was built on the shared universe concept, it came into being in order to do that and use it to build an interlocking collection of films.

They might decide not to do that at some point, but it would be a huge change for them.

Warner Bros is totally different, they’re an established movie studio that happens to have access to all these DC comic book characters. The shared universe is the high change for them, it’s why they’re not as wed to the idea and keep changing things so much. It’s not central to their thinking. They just want to make movies that attract the biggest audience they can.


#2987

I’m looking at Infinity War as a jumping off point for me. I’ll continue to watch the Marvel films at home but in theaters I’m looking for something new.

I’m very much looking forward to Ragnarok and Black Panther in the meantime so I don’t mean it as a knock on the quality of their product.


#2988

I agree about Spidey…two prologues is inane.


#2989

Yeah we have to remember that most of the Avengers were imagined by the same people (mostly Kirby and Lee) within the same couple of years. They are essentially designed to fit together from inception, with a similar tone and voice. Trying to fit in Billy Batson with a Dark Knight Returns style of Batman is very difficult in comparison.

The option of course with Marvel is something I say is always there with the comics continuity. You don’t have to jettison the shared universe, it’s just the degree to which you want to focus on it. Fans seem to love the characters meeting up and the Ragnarok clips with the Hulk look loads of fun, what seem to sometimes annoy is when things are shoehorned in for future films, like the Shield stuff in Iron Man 2 or Thor’s bit in the cave in Age of Ultron.


#2990

I’m fine with DC breaking the franchises up. Because trying to imitate Marvel has been working. And, as much as I’ve enjoyed and admired what Marvel has done building to Infinity Wars, I hope they pull back from the interconnected movie verse, at least a little, after Avengers 4. Let the franchises breath and do their own thing for a little bit. We can still all understand they’re in the same world by now.


#2991

Yes, it treats autism by literally weaponizing it. It is amazing how autism, Aspergers and essentially just plain anti-social behavior are now kind of like superpowers, especially in television shows.


#2992

I’m more than a bit meh on the stepping away from the cinematic universe for scattershot stand-alones, especially they are a bunch of “only superhero in the world” type movies. I think it’s a step backwards. Starting there, sure, but trying to put the genie back in the bottle only seems like it’s going to create confusion when the inevitable stand alone sequels begin and they’re going to shoot themselves in the foot.

People praising Wonder Woman for it’s separateness seem to forget that it takes place nearly a hundred years ago, when Batman and Superman weren’t even born. Of course it’s “separate.”

There’s nothing movie critics like than accusing genre fare of being “confusing.” This is just going to give them more ammo, and not help box office or critical success. Of course, that doesn’t seem to have hurt television, but television is more forgiving of disparate visions running concurrently.

Enh, maybe it will work. If it doesn’t I’ll treat the movies like the comics and only pay attention to those that advance the narratives I’m bothered to invest in and I’ll let go of the “must see everything” impulse that currently drives me regarding DC and Marvel (not Sony or Fox) movies.