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DC Cinematic Universe - Wonder Woman, Justice League and More


Which is hinted at in the movie itself through Ares saying that even if peace is achieved he’s set it up so that we’ll just end up doing more off of it…hell, he done did it.


never mind! Terrible horrible spoiler person I am.


That is the weird thing. In purely academic terms, Dr Manhattan is a deconstruction of Superman (along with Miracleman before him). Essentially, it takes the character out of his normal genre context and shows the mechanics of how it works and how it can’t work divorced from the conventions of the genre. It reveals the manipulation.

Man of Steel started almost like that. The essential question at the outset of the film was generally “what place does a man with superhuman powers have in our world?” or “in the real world, would a Superman simply be a monster?”

Honestly, that is a dramatic story that really has yet to be told in film even though the original script for HANCOCK, called TONIGHT HE COMES, was that story before massive rewrites changed it.

However, for Superman, that is not really a story that will ever see the screen in any serious way that doesn’t turn out to be an alternate universe.

So, in the end, MAN OF STEEL became a somewhat flawed version of the usual Hero’s Journey/Emperor of Everything story we always get from STAR WARS to THE MATRIX to almost any movie today.

But… it actually did something right even though I and a lot of people didn’t like how it did it. In the end, Superman barely saves the world and doesn’t save a lot of people. What he does is that he makes the choice to join the human race rather than rule as a Kryptonian in the ashes of the world.

And, more importantly, he’s still not trusted or accepted for that choice. In the “Emperor of Everything” version of the hero’s journey myth or “mono myth,” the hero is crowned king and celebrated because he’s just simply the best. However, the much more satisfying conclusion is that the hero returns to his tribe (Clark rejoins the human race) and it is the tribe, not the hero, who benefit for it.

I can see why a lot of people liked the way Man of Steel concluded even though it seems like a disaster of an ending. Primarily because the heroic action wasn’t stopping Zod, but it was making the choice to fight for humanity even if there is no reward for doing it.


Very common among Japanese superheroes


As much as I enjoy a lot of the media theory I’m cautious about getting into discussing Man of Steel again. :wink:


I have a hard time seeing Dr. Manhattan as a deconstruction of Superman.

Miracleman, Supreme, sure. Really at this point, Superman is a deconstruction of Superman, and has been for most of our lives.


Dr. Manhattan is a composite superhuman, his powers and origin are less important than his abilities, which are (essentially) infinite.

Moore’s central (but not only) point in creating him is that power will isolate someone. He cannot relate to being anything less than himself anymore.


Yeah I never saw Dr. Manhattan as a deconstruction of Superman. He was just the god-like, actual super-powered being in a world where none else was. I guess he’s a sort od super man, but he’s too dissimilar in tone and purpose.


There’s a throughline between Dr. Manhattan and Superman, but largely because Watchmen is heavily influenced by Gladiator by Philip Wylie, which was allegedly also an influence on Siegel and Schuster (though they never confirmed it)


He is if what you mean by “Superman” is “the most powerful superhero”, which is pretty much the case. Doc Manhattan’s point is that he is the superhero concept taking to its logical extreme. And there are many ways in which he is a deconstruction of Superman (certainly where Superman’s relationship to Lois is concerned).

Yeah. This is pretty much why I liked Man of Steel quite a lot.

It all has to evolve differently now if they want JLA to work, though.


I tried to read Gladiator once but didn’t make it far.


Gotta power through, Ronnie. You gonna let a book beat you? The ending is important. Historical framework, m’boy! It’s like saying you “tried to read” Action #1 or Detective #27 and “didn’t make it far”.

If I made it through the hideous “Of Human Bondage”, you can make it through “Gladiator”!


That’s ok. I learned a long time ago that I don’t have to finish every book I start. :wink:


I end up doing that far too often. :pensive:


For anyone keeping score, it looks like ‘Wonder Woman’ will drop about 49% this weekend.

That’s very good.


That’s almost half!

Time to get to the lifeboats :wink:


Saw Wonder Woman this weekend and thoroughly enjoyed it. I’m excited by the idea that the motivating factor for people to fill seats for Justice League will be a badass female superhero.

The movie was preceded by a trailer for Justice League, and my reactions from it were that it looks very overproduced, and unfortunately I didn’t find myself all that excited for it. My excitement for it did increase after seeing Wonder Woman, but mostly because I want to see more of her in action.


Some teens behind me after the JL trailer had played loudly claimed, and I bet for the thrill of being heard to the whole audience, that the CW Flash show looks much better than the trailer for Justice League.

And I just wondered what the hell did they do? Close their eyes?


The Flash’s costume bugged me a bit, but I thought the concept was cool. It just seems like they made it more complicated than it needs to be.

The thing that really bugged me was Cyborg. The amount of CG I involved in putting that character onscreen is outrageous and really battled with my immersion into the trailer experience. I worry it will have the same impact when I see the film.


Even as someone who is genuinely excited for this JL movie, yeah, the Flash costume is terrible.