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Comics - Everyone Else (NOT Marvel / DC)


#1825

Fucking idiots.

Is this China? Censorship is a good thing as long as it’s something that they don’t like that is being censored?


#1826

So, caught up on this - oh and that cover? It appears to have vanished from the net, that’s quite an accomplishment.

There’s some quite massive online conflagrations raging over this, with the notion that Image should pay for this as a publisher, which does ignore how they operate - I wonder how Walking Dead’s infamous #36 issue would go down now - the idea is that Image could refuse to print the comic. Now, say they did that in this case, what is to stop say a right-wing group using the same line of attack on say a book like Lazarus? Doesn’t seem to be restricted to covers either but internal content too, which opens a hist of doors that’d be better kept shut.

Someone really doesn’t like story X? Don’t buy it. Hitting a creator in the wallet sends a message pretty quickly.


#1827

Here’s the cover if anyone wants to see it.

This comic is now being labelled racist and also transphobic (due to events from a previous issue) despite its entire purpose being a warning against heading towards the sort of world we are headed towards which will see the events like those depicted occurring in the very near future.

I question the intelligence of these people if they can’t see this and also passing judgement on something they have not read, basically reacting to others on their social media feed.

Ironically, Chaykin produced this cover just a few months back in support of PRIDE month.


#1828

It’s not about ideology any more, it’s about righteous indignation and taking down the next target - the mob mentality The Simpsons parodied so many times lives online.

I just finished reading So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed by Jon Ronson, and it’s a fascinating look into these sorts of events.


#1829

Exactly, it’s not about the purpose of content anymore - just the content itself.
Which is rather worrisome.


#1830

I don’t think it’s even the content. Like, if it wasn’t this Chaykin cover it’d be something else. And after people stop making vaguely controversial comments, jokes or art, then the outrage mob will move onto even more innocent things.


#1831

Aye, and I remember some outrage about Twin Peaks merchandise that got some traction.

It’s funny, in a sense, in that I wasn’t ever going to check out Chaykin’s book (because I think his art has sorta weakened over the years) but this has brought it to the forefront of my attention to…take a closer look really haha.


#1832

Do you think this dilutes/takes attention away from the things that do deserve the focus and awareness?


#1833

Definitely.
There has to be a bar…and if you lower it, then it creates an unnecessary deluge.


#1834

I am slightly bias because I love Howard Chaykin, but I would recommend giving it a look.

Chaykin’ writing and art is of a generation and is not for everyone, but I do love his his style. I’ll buy anything that he does.


#1835

Absolutely, and it plays into the stupid back and forth arguments online that popularise nonsense terms like SJW.


#1836

I love his prime work, definitely great. His newer stuff is just a bit too scratchy visually for me.

But yeah, this has put this on a “to read” list so that I can see what is there to actually say outside of useless outrage.


#1837

I think I’m a bit perplexed that Chaykin is surprised that people are a bit up in arms by what was obviously intended as a shock cover. Maybe because it was from the opposite group he had hoped?


#1838

I think it was intended to shock, but not to troll or bait and that’s a massive difference.

It’s a cover designed to make an impact. Obviously we all have opinions on how that image affects us or what we think it achieves - but I think he’d expect more of an intelligent response, given the actual aim of the book.

Alex Di Campi’s response on Twitter is very disappointing, I don’t think i can ever bring myself to buy any of her work in future, I wouldn’t financially support an artist who thinks it’s appropriate to neuter another artist like that. It’s clear from her comments she has not read the book. I can separate myself from the artist in most cases, but. It when someone is trying to damage and disrespect a fellow pros right to freedom of expression - particularly when it is right intentioned in the first place.

Labelling Chaykin as garbage and aiming an incredible amount of vitrol at him and Image. She should know better being a creator or artist herself and I’m not impressed with her desire to gag a fellow pro like that, especially one who has actually produced an impressive body of work. Total lack of respect there.


#1839

It doesn’t shock me or provoke a strong response towards Chaykin. I just think it’s a bit tasteless. I also think it’s a bit hamfisted if he was expecting it to provoke a thoughtful response.

I don’t know the situation and I don’t know what Di Campi’s relationship with Chaykin is but there’s always a possibility that there’s more going on in the situation and this was just a catalyst.

Edit: I should also note that when I first saw the image I had no clue the character was meant to be Pakistani or trans as the genital area was pixelated. It just looked like some guy being hanged with his dick chopped off.


#1840

Serious question - what is the intrinsic difference between Alex DeCampi’s comments about Howard Chaykin on Twitter different from your comments about DeCampi here?


#1841

No criticising you at all here Ronnie, just want to be clear about that before I continue.
I just mean I don’t think think the cover was designed to provoke a fire on social media I do think it is designed to be provocative though.

I think if people look at the entirety of the cover and pay a bit of attention to the shop signs then they could start to infer what Chaykin is aiming for.

I think a powerful image is appropriate because it is a powerful subject and we are in for a few decades of trouble.


#1842

That’s fair. I hadn’t paid much attention to the rest of the cover before. That part doesn’t say much to me either. It’s a standard view of someone with Chaykin’s origins on most of middle America.


#1843

I did think about that before I posted to work out if I was being a bit of a hyprocrite.

I think the difference is I’m not a small time creator trying to make a career for myself in the profession.
Creators slagging other creators off is extremely unprofessional and never used to happen, because it would a sure fire way of making sure you don’t get hired.

You’ll never see Mark Millar do it and you definitely never would have when he was making his inroads, even at a niaive and young age.
There was a day where you’d never work again for this type of behaviour, now she’s probably more likely to get work out of it because it seems of you make enough noise publishers will apologise to you even when they possibly have nothing to apologise for and I dare say overcompensate to keep the noise happy.

I have not insulted her personally (yet) and I make no parallels to her work and what that means for her as a person.
Because Chaykin has written and drawn something that she personally doesn’t like she’s resorted to calling him a big dumb white rhino (He strikes me as far from being dumb, given the depth of some of his work and how ahead of its time American Flagg was), accusing him of punching down at minority groups to feel daring (Chaykin is a fully established creator who has already made a name for himself in the industry - he doesn’t need to try to make a name for himself - also he’s not punching down at minority groups, he’s criticising the American government and America in general for doing just that.) accused him of victimisation and tried to give him a lecture on how to do exploitation properly.
Get fucking over yourself Alex, the guy has been at the top of this profession since before you were born and you, a creator who has not even made a dent on the industry, has the arrogance and ego to lecture people who mastered it fucking decades ago.

I’m sorry about the rant but I’ve bitten on this one hook, line and sinker.

I guess for me what let’s me down here is how the fuck would she like it if people were judged her and her work based on some other people’s Twitter comments, rather than having tried to read her work and understand it. She clearly hasn’t read it she’s just jumped on a fucking bandwagon here.


#1844

I meant to add that I think this is bullying.

It’s a different type of bullying than your everyday school playground shit, but online bullying comes in many guises and Alex De Campi is essentially a ringleader in a group here who are bullying a man because he’s drawn a picture that she doesn’t appreciate, she’s on there verbally encouraging others to join in on this bullying and there’s a lot of horrible stuff being written.

Why is this seen as acceptable?

It’s like a lynch mob, as you alluded to earlier and it’s really not very nice and I doubt Chaykin is feeling very good about himself just now.
Trying to marginalise someone, calling them names and trying to discredit them is victimisation as well.
Just because he’s a white male doesn’t mean it’s ok.

All forms of bullying are unacceptable and if she took a step back and had think about this she’d probably be ashamed of herself.