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Comics Are Ruining Comics

The audience is always looking for new. In every era you can see a new property emerging with something interesting to say that fans raved about and are still into today. Wild storm, the original Image properties, nu X Men, there’s loads of examples. Except this decade. It’s been a creatively void era. Not just Marvel, everywhere is lackluster.

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Yes, they do look for new stuff. That’s true.

Right now I feel like Indecisive Dave in this whole debate.

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I have to say I know nothing about her. I really don’t follow DC or Marvel continuity.

How different are her powers? Often it is a combination of flying, punching, being tough and/or shooting energy beams.

I think some of the last new characters that have proven to have a lot of staying power are Cable and Deadpool. And those are derivative too, Cable is basically the Terminator. Deadpool I think is a mash up of a foul mouthed Spider-Man with ninja skills and healing powers.

If we’re talking “creatively void” outside of Marvel and DC, I think that ignores a TON of books: Jeff Lemire’s Black Hammer books (along with Descender, Remender’s indie comics (Black Science, Deadly Class, Low, Tokyo Ghost, Seven to Eternity), Aaron and Latour’s Southern Bastards, DeConnick’s Bitch Planet, Vaughan’s Panel Syndicate books along with Saga and Paper Girls, Brubaker’s Criminal, Fatale, the Fade Out, and Lazarus, stuff like Lumberjanes, The Sixth Gun, Locke and Key - that’s not even close to everything, and from a creative standpoint I’d put it up against any other decade, easily.

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Her powers are the ability to change size and shape (enlarging, stretching, or shrinking various parts of her body).

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Very different from all that. She’s closer to Plastic Man or Ralph Dibny than Captain Marvel. And a closer character to high school Peter Parker.

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On this I do think you are a bit off. Deadpool can never be Peter Parker because of how he looks when the mask is off. It’s a fundamental difference and a very important one. He has the same reason as Dr Doom to be an tyrant and villain but he chooses to just be an asshole, for which I think he should be commended.

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Maybe Saga, I give it up about 20 issues in but maybe it belongs. The rest are just a bunch of average comics. None of them belong in the upper echelon. They’re no Planetary or Authority or Watchmen or Spawn or Walking Dead other true greats. They’re ok, but you can’t be serious that they belong in the same conversation with what I’m talking about.

You’re doing that thing you did with Marvel. You’re listing a bunch of average at best stuff and suggesting it belongs on the shelf with all time classics. Your sense of scale is way off. Or your standard is too low.

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Well that is original for a character named Ms Marvel.

Super powers are somewhat limited. Eventually when you keep inventing new ones you start getting into silly territory, like Arm Fall Off Boy.

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Sounds like a good name for a band though!

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Sure I can (and am). I love Planetary, Authority, and Watchmen, and I won’t deny the commercial or cultural impact of the Walking Dead, but Spawn? Yeah, it’s still going, but then, so is the Savage Dragon.

I think if the books I listed are average, then it’s a much higher average than what I’d consider average books in the 90s, 80s, 70s, etc.

Or…and this is just a possibility…we’re both talking about matters of taste, and your’s is no more objective than mine?

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America Chavez? I don’t think that she counts as being derivative.

She’s similar to Ms. Marvel in that she’s technically using a preexisting name (Miss America) and design elements, but it’s otherwise completely different.

I had contemplated her and determined too derivative but I could go either way on it.

I haven’t read all of the things mentioned but I’d never call Criminal or Locke & Key just average. Those are two of the best comic I’ve read. Great stuff. Maybe they don’t have the impact Spawn or The Walking Dead have had, but they’re fab better crafted stories than either of those two as far as I’m concerned. And I was really into the first 3 or so years of the Waking Dead.

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Maybe if they starred Squirrel Girl.

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Then they’d clearly be the greatest fucking comics of all time and there’d be no point publishing another comic ever again.

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The crime ones are a little hard to measure on the same scale because they’re such a different beast I think.

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Only one of those originated within the big 2, if we’re including Image then that means all Millar has done in the last decade. New X-Men was a fine run but none of the characters have really endured, they’ve either been put back on the shelf or are minor players. I don’t know if we’re naming enduring characters now or just quality books. Criminal as mentioned is a great book but is largely a series of short stories. I’ve lost track.

Criminal is much like Sleeper - a great book, but not legendary class. Not something all fans feel obligated to read or something we’d be still talking about 20 years from now. Not Hall of Fame.

This shouldn’t be that hard to agree on, there’s nothing lighting up the industry and there hasn’t been for years. There is no buzz book. Nothing comic book forums can’t help but talk about. Nothing that makes people rush to the store on Wednesday. Our own forum is a great example of how dull this era is. A thread on deodorant can have more activity than a comics discussion on any given Wednesday.

Every decade has maybe 10 truly great books - something that changes the industry, makes someone’s fortune, sets the world ablaze or just hits such a high note that reading it is a must do for any new comics fan. Go to any top books of all time list and see how many entries were published after 2008. Maybe Saga, which is probably overrated. Just good is not great.

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