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Box Office Mojo


#1942

Pfff… that’s why we can’t have nice things… people and their nostalgia… u_u

Also and going back to the pro-Marvel bias… So I sometimes watch PewDiePie, and recently he did a video making fun of Marvel movies and yesterday or so, he was doing a MCU meme review and casually commented that he got more shit from his viewers for having a go at the MCU movies than he did when he said the n-word or when he did the “kill the jews” gag that got him into trouble… :smile:

Point being, yes there’s this gigantic por-Marvel bias in pop-culture these days… It’s understandable sure, but it’s also undeniable. Anyways… just watched that video, so it’s a timely observation I guess…


#1943

It’s because their films are better. BvS is a complete mess of a film that barely makes sense.

“He’s my friend!” (no he isn’t, at all, 3 minutes ago you were intending to murder him)


#1944

I’d say it’s because their films are popular… very much so. “Better”? Yeah some, not all. Civil War is waaay shittier than BvS.

But anyways, point being, if you make fun of DC movies or Universal’s monsters failed attempt, or the Transformers or whatever else, you’re basically fine… if you make fun of Marvel… oiii =P


#1945

No it isn’t.

…and essentially this is the problem with the conspiracy theories we’ve seen. Some people, who just have different tastes, disagree. I’m fine with you preferring BvS but I don’t agree. When they see most disagree it’s a bias. It can’t be that people just liked those movies more like I did, it’s an inherent bias of some sort or the other.

Then that inherent bias gets challenged when WW is widely praised and it moves on to the next theory, that’s probably some SJW politically correct thing. We conveniently forget the Nolan Batman movies had great reviews and box office.

Then we see extremes where reviewers are widely accused of being on a Disney payroll for giving good reviews which is ridiculous.


#1946

Oh it’s a conspiracy theory now?

Oh not at all… I’m fully aware people have shit taste. That’s not where the bias comes from, it comes from the fact that the MCU is uber popular at this point and has a LOT of fans world-wide… nothing inherently wrong with that, but to just ignore that there’s a bias is silly.

Well I also mentioned an anti-snyder bias… so I’m covered :smile:

Also, WW is not widely praised… I mean, yeah it was, but hype kinda died down quickly. And ugh… I’m not gonna get into a debate about the politically correct/SJW thing, because I do think it’s true, up to a point, but you obviously disagree, so let’s agree to disagree.

No we don’t conveniently forget, but people are taking a shit on the DCEU (Snyder-verse) as a piss-poor attempt at recreating the MCU… not on WB’s entire filmography. The Nolan trilogy has nothing to do in this discussion.

Yeah it is, no one’s argued the contrary. Although I would add that Disney owns a lot of media outlets so let’s not completely discard their hype-machine.


#1947

The reviews pretty much coincide with my view. They crushed BvS while Civil War has 90 % positive reviews on Rottentomatoes.

You can call it bias, the fact remains a lot of people just didn’t like BvS. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. To say people who didn’t like BvS were “wrong” is just stupid, you have to accept people have different tastes.


#1948


#1949

I will add that BvS has an extended edition that makes better sense of some (though not all) of the weird plot issues, and has a much better flow to it. I didn’t like Dawn of Justice at all in theaters but I like the extended cut quite a lot. Some of the disconnect in taking about this movie is that people are essentially arguing about two different movies. Although I don’t blame anyone for not liking either cut, it’s not a movie that’s eager to please.


#1950

I am just judging what I saw in the cinema. Maybe Snyder had a brilliant vision for BvS that was screwed up by the studio. I can’t judge it because I haven’t seen the extended cut (and probably never will.)


#1951

I think that says more about what kind of shitty people some of his fans are than any kind of pro Marvel bias.


#1952

I saw only the extended cut. Liked bits of it well enough, but as an entire movie, it’s a hell of a mess. And Gar’s still right about “He’s my friend”.


#1953

What do you and Gar have against friendship?


#1954

Yes essentially. The majority of people did prefer Civil War to BvS, it can be measured various ways, the critic scores, fan scores and box office.

Critics aside the vast majority of those people don’t have a Scooby Doo that Kevin Feige, Russo Brothers, Zach Snyder or Patty Jenkins exist. It has no bearing on their opinion at all.

I have no problem that some go against that view and prefer BvS but that’s personal preference, it’s not based on inherent biases for these quite ‘inside baseball’ factors. That’s the chat people like us have but not the main audience.


#1955

I guess I really, really don’t understand how people don’t understand BvS, how they go from fighting each other to working together. The oft-mocked “How do you know that name???” moment makes perfect sense to me. As far as I can tell, it’s mocked by people looking for something to mock. And you can find that kind of moment in literally every story ever told. The difference in whether or not you do is based on personal bias or conditioning. They aren’t connecting on the name but suddenly realizing they’re both on the same side. A bad guy (which is how they’ve been viewing each other to that point), is hardly going to spontaneously humanize themselves like that. I mean, bad guys freak out, but this was clearly interpreted as something else. It just so happened that both their mothers were named Martha. This wasn’t something the movie made up. And their mothers mean a lot to both of them, for different reasons. It’s breaking the ice in the most extreme way possible. That’s the whole movie. I get that there are moments like the Knightmare sequence that seem to be overly dramatic material, but that’s literally Batman hallucinating a worst case scenario. Fans took it to be foreshadowing. As far as we know, in a world where Apokolips exists, people have nightmares with demons that look like parademons. Superman’s hallucination is his dad. This is how they process things. Batman always dreads the worst case scenario, Superman always reflects on his upbringing. There’s nothing at all unusual about this. It’s only unusual because we don’t normally see it visualized. We idealize Batman and find it disturbing when any of his behavior is depicted as creepy (All Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder, or even Tim Burton’s Batman). But the character is the character is the character. Richard Donner’s favorite word, when he was developing Superman, was verasimilitude. The material had to be true to the character. I think Snyder accomplished that.


#1956

Yeah, I’m totally on-board with a darker, grittier DC film universe.

I agree that it is sort of necessary to make the DC cinematic universe its own identity and not just copy Marvel’s tone. If Marvel is aiming at twelve year-olds, then DC should go for sixteen year-olds.

But I also think that DC’s characters work best in a darker, more mature setting. Look at the stuff DC was doing in the 80s – Dark Knight Returns, Killing Joke, Moore’s Swamp Thing, Batman Year One, Death in the Family. Marvel could never really pull off stuff like that, maybe outside of Kraven’s Last Hunt.

But the approach Warners is taking with the films is so scattershot and unfocused that they can’t build audience interest. They are so preoccupied with trying to catch up with the MCU that their world-building feels off and incomplete.

And they’re so obsessed with trying to please audiences that they’ve crippled themselves when it comes to developing properties (and have about two dozen things in development hell at the moment) and butchered Justice League into a sloppy monstrosity that pleased nobody.


#1957

DC have set themselves up for more nitpicking and bias than Marvel - mainly due to the disappointing feeling most have with the DC movies. I think Batman and Superman fighting is as contrived as Iron Man and Cap fighting, I think neither movie is very good. That’s not the consensus and I find that interesting. But we’re struggling to agree on what’s a good movie and what’s a bad movie and if we can’t get there then we can’t any further into the discussion about Marvel vs DC in pop culture. That’s odd because typically most people can find common ground on movies and there’s only been a handful that really split audiences.

I suggest you read some of the new reviews about Solo and how careful they are, and then watch the final product and see if you think the advance buzz was reflective of the actual experience. I found for Last Jedi the buzz was very positive and hyped up, but when the actual movie was released the reactions were far more grounded and somewhat negative.

I’ve pointed out previously how Disney is linked to the media. I don’t see why that’s so fanciful, it’s pretty common business practice elsewhere. Each of these movies represents hundreds of millions in investment with huge profits at stake. They’re not going to leave buzz or reviews entirely to chance. It’s just the same when Ford launch a new car and it wins a bunch of awards and positive reviews when it’s really a piece of shit car.


#1958

Advanced buzz is usually always super positive unless the film is utterly terrible.


#1959

They do. One thing people forget is that the DC characters already had their time in the sun - Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman all had periods where they were huge hits, and have been in pop culture for decades. We’ve seen them with certain tones already. Marvel is mostly offering new characters, none of them had much success in previous movies or TV. DC need to offer their characters slightly differently than they did 25 years ago in order to make them feel fresh. So we get angry grounded Batman rather than Adam West goofiness or Tim Burton gothic opera. We get quiet conflicted Superman rather than confident and happy Christopher Reeve, and we get epic warrior Wonder Woman rather than everyday gal Linda Carter. Marvel did it with the Hulk, rather than lonely brooding Banner and rage monster Hulk we have nervous chatty Banner and a funny Hulk.


#1960

Well it depends. Most of that initial buzz is not real reviews but people on Twitter at press screenings. They are always positive because strictly speaking they are embargoed and shouldn’t talk at all but nobody will sue them if they say something nice. Par example:

I agree though there are venues where lines are blurred like Access Hollywood or a similar publication gets exclusive content and then has to post reviews. It’s why I like the stance of BBC 5 Live where they declined interviews with Tom Holland for Avengers Infinity War and Harrison Ford and Ryan Gosling for Blade Runner 2049 because they weren’t allowed to see the full movie first but just extended clips.


#1961

That doesn’t necessarily spell “dark” though. Used to be quite the opposite, in comics.

And Batman would easily work as something between a straight man and they guy everybody is scared of, weirdly. Morrison pulled the dynamics off nicely in his first runs on JLA, it’s not all that hard to do.