I like craft beer, AND I like Starbucks. Just sayin’…
Have a coffee beer!
There is some tribalism I think but mostly people just want to like every movie and wish the DC movies were more to their tastes. And also things just snowball on the internet; when people like something it becomes the greatest thing ever, and some people go too far. And when something becomes a negative meme, it’s hard to turn that around. And lots of people go too far (such as making fun of Affleck’s alcoholism or Snyder’s tragedy).
But then the content machine and “critics” get out ahead of the clicks and provide people want they want to hear, really no different than political content. Mother Jones won’t run an article about how Trump’s policies have led to job growth and geek sites would never run a “10 things we love about Dawn of Justice” article. I guess that could be seen as tribalism but it’s also just the internet economy.
The whole thing with the DC movies has been bizarre. I don’t think people in a broad sense disliked Man of Steel, but they really hated Dawn of Justice. But then they loved Wonder Woman even though it’s really not any better.
If they just did Man of Steel, and then Wonder Woman, and then had those two characters join Bale’s Batman for a Trinity movie, then it would have been DC’s Avengers and lots of people would have loved it.
I feel lucky that I haven’t seen either of these. Sounds like pretty nasty stuff.
There are pretty nasty corners of the internet.
It’s pretty underrated in the scheme of things but probably the number one thing Marvel did right was hire Joss Whedon to do the Avengers. It’s forgotten now but it was a pretty risky move at the time—remember at the time he was someone with a history of canceled shows and failed movies as much as his successes, and they were trusting him fully with the property.
If DC had hired him for their Superman reboot things would have been a lot different. It’s hard to fault them too much for the Snyder hire though—Snyder’s greatest successes were adapting books by Frank Miller and Alan Moore, and they were the rights holders to DC comics.
It’s a bit of a shame we’ll never get to see that kind of Justice League now. I don’t think DC will anytime soon be able to turn things around to a point where those heroes are smart, competent and fun.
But yeah. Even with Marvel, they probably wouldn’t have hired him if they hadn’t had a working relationship with him already, after his time on Astonishing.
As much as I’m lukewarm on Snyder (at best), I still don’t blame him for the failed attempt of a DC movie-verse. I think if they’d allowed Snyder to do a straight sequel to MoS like he probably wanted then things might have gone better. I thought the Superman/Lex stuff were the best bits of that movie. Also, without Batman they might have been able to flesh out the Superman/Lois relationship better.
And Justice League is on the studio. A Whedon/Snyder collaboration might have been able to pull out something cool (Dawn of the Dead is still one of Snyder’s more enjoyable movies and Whedon and Gunn have similar sensibilities), but bringing on Whedon for last minute re-writes and reshoots just made for a mess. It’s a shame both Snyder and Whedon have to have their names all over that.
All that said Snyder at least deserves a lot of credit for casting Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. It was a huge win for WB and for that alone WB owes him.
He also previously wrote a great foreword to the first volume of Ultimates that showed that he ‘got’ the team dynamic and appeal of that kind of group. I’m not saying it got him the job or anything, but I think it was a mark in his favour for fans.
I think we will at some point.
Yeah, “never” was a bit strong. But it will take years to untangle the current dynamic and get them to that point. And I think they will need to make even more changes to personnel. They need to get rid of Geoff Johns and of David Goyer the style of the movies changes.
I just realized Black Panther is the most succesful superhero movie of all time in the North American market…internationally The Avengers did better, but who would have ever suspected Black Panther would be this succesful?
Stan and Jack? Once they got past that first pimp suit?
Maybe it wasn’t intentional on Warner/DC’s part, but I recall it being suggested that in the interests of brand differentiation they might have edged toward grim and gritty (done so poorly that it’s a key joke in the Deadpool trailer) since Marvel had already cornered the lighter, quippy superhero market.
Warner/DC didn’t need to do that though.
Oh, I think WW is much, much better than DoJ. It’s not a perfect film, but it feel whole, whereas there are just so many problems with DoJ - so many contrivances, poor character development, unnecessary scenes, needless complications. It feels as manufactured as it actually was to push things into a shared universe quicksmart. There were good sequences (some great - I like Affleck’s Batman for the most part), but it felt like a slapped together mix of scenes from 2 or three films.
Yes they did. Batman doesn’t work in fun and quippy. Nor does Superman to a lesser extent. The DC heroes aren’t flawed humans like the Marvel folks, they’re titans and icons. Gods amongst men and all that.
Batman’s the odd one out, but that can be played for laughs anyway (and has in the comics).
gahhh Shumacker flashbacks…
Pfff… that’s why we can’t have nice things… people and their nostalgia… u_u
Also and going back to the pro-Marvel bias… So I sometimes watch PewDiePie, and recently he did a video making fun of Marvel movies and yesterday or so, he was doing a MCU meme review and casually commented that he got more shit from his viewers for having a go at the MCU movies than he did when he said the n-word or when he did the “kill the jews” gag that got him into trouble…
Point being, yes there’s this gigantic por-Marvel bias in pop-culture these days… It’s understandable sure, but it’s also undeniable. Anyways… just watched that video, so it’s a timely observation I guess…