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That’s a given but I’ve written so many times that with modern movies = G/U for kids material, R/15/18 for horror, adult drama and sexy comedy, PG13/12A for every other film made outside that - so I went for brevity.

I’m not lost on target audiences Steve, I am just saying that the hero v hero paradigm unnecessarily confuses the younger end of those targets (as well as a decent share of adults) when there are 10,000 other stories to do.

Yes if they made them better it could work but it’s an inherently difficult thing because you present characters independently as clever and brave and intuitive in their own stories then you have to come up with very good reasons they act against those traits with each other. Civil War sold that better than BvS where the logic leaps are greater but I don’t think it is usually well done in either the films or comics when there are other stories to tell.


Please believe me, my argument was never that all superhero films have to be aimed at kids, I loved Logan (and Deadpool was fun).

It was that these films are aimed at a general pretty wide audience and the hero v hero aspect is difficult for the younger end to grasp.


I think Marvel aims at 12 and above. Before that they have other media for those demographics. Not saying 8 year old don’t watch Marvel movies, but they’re clearly not the intended market.

Marvel, Potter, Pirates, Star Wars - they’re all aimed at the same market.


But why? The movie gets dark and very serious at times, but I don’t think it misses the younger ones. I don’t think that kids expected to see something deeper, except eager to see Batman against Supreman (and vice-versa).
I don’t know for R rated version.

If Nolan got away with it, and his trilogy is quite serious. I


From my first post age range through chats with kids, the 12 year olds still have issues. If you look at general fiction until you reach the YA level with a primary target of 15 but will skew younger there is very little moral ambiguity, it’s good and bad.

In Harry Potter which sets up the best example because each book is meant to be read readers by one year older as the series progresses that increases with each book.


Fair enough, I take my kids to these movies and I take their cousins who range from 10-17. That’s my experience of their reactions. Daddy/uncle has all the complex questions with those films.

As I said the PG13 rating catches so wide I do not think at all Nolan was aiming at the same target. I would happily show Thor to a 6 year old, I would not show The Dark Knight, I think that is a proper 12/13 as an entry point.


I was thinking 14/15, but it’s fair point. That pencil to the eye was hardcore.


Yeah and as I said, an entry point, you have to generalise to a degree as kids do mature and react to and grasp concepts differently. It all comes with a natural ‘margin for error’ up and down. Hell I know some adults that can’t handle some things in PG13 films. :smile:


Except when you spend $200m+ on a film, the target audience usually turns out to be “anyone who can afford to go to the theater.” :wink:

Yeah, I think they can get some traction by making the villain someone people can identify with rather than simply hate. On the other hand, Darth Vader was a big hit with kids even before he turned out to be Luke’s father. Powerful characters - whether good or evil - will always appeal to powerless kids.


Taking kids to Batman vs Superman is just cruel.


I get the joke, but you know that’s not the case. Weirdly true, but still true.

If it was then these films would be PG or even G rated and they’re not.

Taking anyone…

Sorry, obvious joke is obvious.

I saw kids at the cinema for that film, some of them in costume.

And I’m not disagreeing with you.

But the people who make the movies don’t want to agree with you and I believe it’s because they want to be, at least a bit, cool. Western culture says that straightforward narratives aren’t cool. They’re accused of being formulaic, simplistic, even dumbing down.

Which was the point I was trying to make earlier;


I think that’s a slightly different thing though. My son liked Kylo Ren after TFA and has a Darth Vader mask but is under no illusions he’s playing the bad guy. In school we played British v Germans in the school yard (yes the WW2 thing carried on into late 1970s/ early 1980s playgrounds). If you got drafted onto ‘the Germans’ you knew they were the bad guys.

Luke turning on Han or Chewy is another matter.


Yeah and I think we’re probably not disagreeing substantially. I just think there are better ways to add that nuance (as I think we actually saw with the likes of Loki and Thanos as the favourite ‘baddies’ in the MCU) without going hero v hero. Also as we’ve now seen it in both universes there’s not necessarily and argument to do it again for ‘originality’ of approach.


If we are to be fair, I saw a lady carrying two young children with her on The Change Up.
But, if you ask me, children would be fine (well, not those very young) on BvS. And not on R rated version. Well, maybe they should skip the Doomsday creation scene as it is too intense. I remember how disturbed I was, while watching the creation of Bane in B&R.

Btw, garjones made interesting point about handling. Does it count I can’t watch Curly Sue? Even today? I know my father can’t stand these superhero films, but he isn’t superhero fan anyway.


I genuinely don’t know what you’d have to do now to get PG.

Looking at the MPAA and BBFC sites for new releases, a hundred from each, they are either documentaries, foreign films or kids cartoons marked up for ‘mild peril’ like Duck Duck Goose, Sherlock Gnomes and Son of Bigfoot.

I have really looked at this in the past few years because it genuinely frustrates me as a parent that almost everything is parked in PG13 and it covers an enormous range of films.

PG is really not what we once knew. It used to cover the majority of ‘general audience’ films, now it barely exists. Even films firmly aimed at kids under the age of 10 like the ones named and Paddington had to give up a G/U for PG.

The BBFC have to to some degree follow the MPAA classification as that’s the most important for English language films, the studios will adjust to their standards. Even they say the real lower age limit for 12A is probably 8.


@Jim and @garjones, it looks like the crash is imminent:


I’ve changed my mind Todd. The model is on a winner!


I’m sure @Lorcan_Nagle will applaud your contrarian ways! :smiley:


He’ll write an article about it I’d assume.

It keeps him busy and I support that. I am very fond of Lorcan even if we sometimes don’t agree and had difficulties with sexual compatibility, he likes them tall and I like them clean shaven.


Is it wrong I went and watched infinity for a third time just to see if Children were traumatized?