At the very least, you can see it’s not just Scott who made this kind of decision, but also Netflix with “House of Cards”, deciding to go on without Spacey.
Oh, I know.
And do you not believe that they did this for monetary reasons, either?
Oh, and I wanted to briefly get to this -
Was “everyone” really that mad at Spacey? It’s like when “everyone” thought Snakes on a Plane was going to be a huge blockbuster, because it had been such a good topic of discussion on the Internet. And hey, Man of Steel and Justicd League both had hugely positive buzz, based on their trailers.
I think I have a bit of a different perception on these things. Snakes on a Plane was an internet meme that nobody outside of geek circles even knew about, and if you expected it to do huge business you were maybe too much into internet memes yourself. And if Justice League had any positive buzz, it wasn’t in any place where I was looking in the last few months.
But the accusations against Kevin Spacey were covered in all global media. You’d read about it in big traditional newspapers in Germany, the kind that wouldn’t know any way to connect snakes and planes. His case was very much in the general awareness of pretty much everybody around the world.
Whether this would’ve kept any of those people from going to see a movie featuring him is another question entirely, of course.
Which is my point. Scott made the decision based on the belief that everyone outside the film/theater community thought the same way he did. Whether or not it was heavily covered in the news is irrelevant. There will always be wildly diverging opinions of news items. I use Snakes on a Plane as an example not because I’m heavily into memes. I think a quick perusal of the Pictures thread will show that I’ve never shared one, here (or anywhere). If Snakes was popular as a meme, in 2006, I’ll take your word for it. I knew that it was hotly anticipated, on the Internet. The best movie theater experience I’ve ever had was attending a midnight screening of it when it opened, just because I knew there was already a rabid audience. And that audience ate it up. But this was no Star Wars. It wasn’t even Clone Wars (although I think they made about the same at the box office).
Anyway, Ridley Scott didn’t cast Kevin Spacey, originally, because Kevin Spacey was a box office draw. His most recent prominent movie appearance was a supporting role in Baby Driver. Nobody thinks of Baby Driver as a Kevin Spacey movie. He was cast because of his renewed prominence from House of Cards. And he was removed, from both House of Cards and Scott’s movie because he was no longer wanted. Which as far as his career is concerned, is little different, really, than the vast majority of his career. Now there’s a reason everyone knows.
This hasn’t happened here for a long time, but I’m honestly lost on what we’re discussing any more?
Is this about Scott or Spacey?
I think this is the misconception. Scott seems to have based the decision on the (likely) public reaction, regardless of whatever his own personal feelings on the subject are. As he says in the interview, he feels that Spacey’s personal life is Spacey’s business, until it starts encroaching on the commercial prospects of the movie.
That may be so. It’s my impression that Scott is trying to say all the rights things. Even though some of what he’s saying sounds a little strange, as others have suggested.
I am not sure what you mean by “all the right things”. I think you’re implying opportunism/hypocrisy? Because in that case, he could’ve said a lot of things to condemn Spacey’s (alleged) behaviour and explicitly put himself on the side of the metoo movement. Which he didn’t; he pretty much made it clear that he doesn’t care about any of this beyond the impact it would’ve had on this movie.
Yeah, still waiting for the other shoe to drop where Casey Affleck is concerned
But nah, it was just a contraction, basically, of first and last names. I sometimes tend to do that when I speak or write too quickly.
Returning to a broader Box Office discussion;
China seems unlikely to become a hotbed of Star Wars fandom. It clearly has fans there, but the rest of the world still carries the bulk of the cinema income for the movies now, and for the future.
This bit is interesting, too:
But perhaps most troubling for Disney, Chinese filmgoers seem to be liking the Star Wars universe less rather than more as the franchise becomes more familiar. According to local media reports on Sunday, the audience for The Last Jedi has skewed conspicuously older than other Hollywood hits, as well as the last two Star Wars releases — which means the franchise is increasingly failing to attract the vital very young demographic that drives big box-office returns in the country.
Also interesting that adding Chinese stars in Rogue 1 didn’t work at all.
This has to irk Disney.
To a degree I think it shows the element of nostalgia and influence when young. The original SW films were not shown in China who had no real cinema business anyway compared to the juggernaut today.
When I first saw “Chewie, we’re home” I had goosebumps and watched the trailer on repeat, more Falcon and John Williams score taking me back. It’s something I’ve seen with my kids and always an interesting aspect to look at. What would your reaction be to any aspect of Star Wars if you are seeing it for the first time? Are the prequels that awful or would be just be considered a decent sci-fi series divorced of the baggage.
Reactions to it are strange to a degree, even with 4 years to ponder the prequels I remember the 5 star reviews for Revenge of the Sith and Millar posting here that he loved it. Now he doesn’t. I can’t think of another blockbuster style film outside of The Last Jedi where the critical acclaim was so high but the fan reaction so much lower, it’s almost always the other way around. The critics are sniffy at the commercial fare but the fans love it.
Speaking as a dad in America, kids here freaking obsessively love Star Wars. Obviously they have no nostalgic tie, but I think it becomes a peer pressure thing where it’s just what all of your friends are into. I don’t know how I’d feel as a kid today. There’s so much entertainment competition as opposed to my childhood when Star Wars so monolithic that even though we also had Trek, Dr. Who, comics, whatever, it felt like Star Wars had no competition.
I definitely wouldn’t like Star Wars if I were encountering it for the first time as an adult in the 2010s. I just think a lot of it is daft, dorky, and frankly not really good. Having grown up with it, I feel like that is part of its charm, and frankly prefer the dorkier aspects to Disney’s weird attempts to make it “cool.” But if I were seeing it now with fresh eyes, I don’t think I’d like it. For one thing all of the soap opera shit would get old really fast.
As my last word on this (because it seems increasingly pointless to talk about), when Scott tries to imply Spacey had some sort of obligation to call him after the allegations started, personally, and that he, Scott, felt vaguely insulted that he, Spacey, didn’t…it reads as grasping for straws, trying to make it sound like it might have actually kind of sort of been about Spacey making him feel bad…So yeah, I think Scott’s reaction has been weird, and not at all straightforward.
They tend to like other aspects, my kids are bored by the original series, they like the Rebels cartoon and the new movies. I put the original films up and they don’t hate them but are often a bit bored.
Dads do our best to pass down our obsessions.
You can see with The Last Jedi that so many complaints are about what people expected to see, Skywalker legacy, Snoke was Obi Wan’s pet dog etc. Some are valid plot items but a whole lot is baggage.
Hmm, I’m pretty certain Donnie Yen would have gotten in some people to see R1 who wouldn’t without him being in it. Ditto for the actor playing Baze.
Kids won’t automatically be interested in their Dads hobbies. We weren’t. The eighties wasn’t full of Buck Rogers and Bonanza. Lord knows my Dad made me watch endless Westerns, but I still liked my own thing. We almost all did.
For something to work with multiple generations it has to be special. It doesn’t succeed on nostalgia alone - we would say Batman is all about nostalgia, or Spidey. Star Wars has something special (Jedis) that appeals on its own merits. Very few thing appeal for decades, we should recognize those that do.
No, that was the late 70s.
I missed all of that - I had older cousins who were into Star Wars but it was before my time, to the point that I didn’t see the OT until some point in the 90s on TV (with commercial breaks). Star Wars was kind of gone for quite a stretch there, my entire childhood and adolescence was from memory devoid of new major SW content (bar books and comics).
In all, I’ve probably seen the prequels once or twice each and the same goes for the OT.
We differ here - Jedis are among the least appealing aspect of Star Wars to me.