But they had to be good to do that, otherwise every Superman film and Star Wars film and Batman film would do at least as well as the prior one, let alone the failed attempts at similar book-franchises (Golden Compass, Narnia, etc.).
Yes it has… although funnily enough, the seemingly new trend also comes from asian cinema… I mean the whole long-shot raw/realistic fight scenes that come from Old Boy and are being used frequently now (DD’s corridor sequences… plus every other marvel netflix show and John Wick, etc…).
But I suspect wire-work at least, and the basic sense of fancier choreography for action scenes will stay in use, even if the more kung-fue-y aspects go out of fashion.
Sure, I never said they weren’t… I was just disputing the fact that the Matrix was “just a flash in the pop culture pan” and that HP and SW are equivalent… they’re really not beyond the fact that both are popular and have a ton of fans.
It was a flash in the pop culture pan.
It had a lasting effect on Cinema and movie making. As you rightly point out.
That is not the same thing though.
That isn’t popularity, that isn’t pentrance into the collective mind.
Everyone knows something about Potter, everyone knows something about star wars, everyone knows Batman and Superman.
They have lasting presence in popular culture
Most people on the street couldn’t tell you neos name. That’s not a lasting effect in popular culture.
I also disagree that Potter was successful only because of the books. More people have seen the movies than read the books. My wife read the books. My son is reading then. I’ve never read any of the books. Neiher have my parents, or my sister. We all saw the movies.
Maybe we just disagree what a lasting impact on popular culture is. For me it is personified by Harry Potter. I can’t think of a more successful and omnipresent series from the last 20 years. Everything else has been and gone . Potter is never going anywhere now.
yeah okay so you’re a Harry Potter fan… got it…
Dude… seriously… do you know what “the Matrix” is? 'cause everyone does… guess where that comes from… u_u
I’m not attacking your precious HP, but it’s dishonest or extremely naive (and plain wrong) to claim that the Matrix had no cultural impact and that it was a “flash”… but sure whatever.
I don’t actually like Harry Potter very much. It’s ok, but my feelings are rather ambivalent toward it
I kind of prefer the Matrix.
I’m not the one there projecting my personal preference on to the world.
I didn’t say it had no cultural influence. You suggested that it is more popular and durable in it’s influence than Harry Potter
That is quite clearly not the case. Demonstrably so.
suuuure buddy… whatever you say.
And now we are done with this discussion, because that’s where you’ve landed.
Two decades on, the only lasting contribution The Matrix has made to the culture is the idea of “redpilling,” which isn’t something to be proud of. Though it’s not the fault of the movie or filmmakers that a group of assholes hijacked the idea.
Look… the first Matrix movie was entertaining enough, Reloaded was overwrought, and Revolutions was overindulgent, nearly unwatchable garbage. It was popular for a year or two, then faded into the genre static. It mostly tapped into cyberpunk nostalgia, the novelty of the internet to the masses, pre-millennial angst, and the explosion of the DVD format. All of that stuff is ancient history now.
I was going to mention the whole red-pill thing. But that’s a meme, as much proof of ongoing cultural significance as “I feel the need - the need for speed” or holding a ghetto-blaster over your head.
I mean, since apparently we’re ignoring the fact that the word “matrix” itself entered the popular vocabulary precisely because of the movie (and that if you ask people what it means, they’ll reference the movie, and not its actual meaning)… then yeah… zero impact… nada… zilch… nil.
Anyways, I’m done with this.
Marvel. Believe it or not (and I can’t) Marvel has beaten them all. It’d bigger than Potter, Pixar, LOTR, even the mighty Star Wars. 3 movies every year and we still can’t get enough. Marvel beats everything, and it’s not close.
Firstly LOTR is different, that was a leap of faith from New Line to film them all together. It’s not something that’s been emulated much since (only Avengers 3&4 but that follows more the Back to the Future precedent). Agreed the child actors were the driving force for Harry Potter taking that approach but studios saw you could bring in close to a billion with every episode so everything has changed since then.
The MCU is just insane. I know lots of people claim they’re sick of superheroes, but what Feige has pulled off is just paradigm-shifting. They’ve spent ten years making a series of nineteen (and counting) interconnected movies and they’ve all been successful. They even started out with a run of underwhelming movies (Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor) but kept soldiering on and eventually struck gold.
It’s absolutely historic stuff. I don’t think there’s been a game changer like this since the original Star Wars.
When we were twelve, we’d sit around reading comic books and dreaming up a project like the MCU knowing it was an impossibility, but now it’s reality.
Oh yeah for sure, and many studios tried to do it and somewhat succeded (Hunger Games) but most basically failed… until Marvel that is.
Speaking of which and going back to SW, what I find curious is that Disney have Feige as an employee, I mean they have his recipe for success, yet they didn’t think to do that for SW… =/
Because, in the end, what SW is missing right now (and what DC and every other studio was missing as well) is their “Feige”, or the guy who’s there to make sure there’s a “bigger picture” to follow.
It’s funny 'cause some people think Feige is overrated, and I agree to a certain extent, but then when you see how hard the other studios fail at replicating that model, it kinda makes me wonder if the guy is really that much of a special genius or something
Oh also, there’s been a loooot of people crying out for Kathleen Kenedy to step down, but I don’t think that’s a good idea, 'cause she seems to be quite a good producer, but a very traditional one… As in she knows and is very much capable of getting shit done and done well (as evidenced by how Solo turned out, compared to how Justice League truned out), but she seems to not be up to the task of the whole “shared universe” thing, which is a rather new concept in Hollywood…
So I think what they need is to go is get someone to work with her, someone who takes care of the creative decisions, to insure the continuity and the connectiveness of the whole shared universe, while Kenedy takes care of the nitty gritty and gets shit done.
One of Feige’s strengths seems to be drawing on existing material and having good instincts on how to rework/recombine that in a way that works for modern cinema audiences.
I’m not sure that same level of source material exists for Star Wars. I know there have been loads of novels, comics, etc. (both in the old Extended Universe and the new one) but I’m not sure that body of work matches up to the sixty years of Marvel comics that Feige is able to draw on.
Also, it’s not like the MCU was an immediate success either. After hitting it out of the gate with Iron Man, the next two movies were The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2.
Even Thor and Captain America performed disappointingly compared to Iron Man, it wasn’t until Avengers they had another huge success.
IM2 may not have been a creative success, but it made more money worldwide than the first Iron Man (US$624mn to US$585mn).
Yeah, it was definitely financially successful, but it still cost a lot more than the first one, $200M vs $140M.