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Blade Runner 2049 SPOILER THREAD


#205

It is an interesting point that killing a replicant child - something that was born - would create cognitive dissonance in a replicant blade runner. Also, maybe this is exactly why real memories are illegal. It neutralizes the essential controls that keep them in line. If a replicant has real human memories, it would not behave like it was programmed.


#206

Which is probably why the baseline exists. Over time a replicant will develop real memories. It is unavoidable. Sort of like UNK in The Sirens of Titan.


#207

I just meant that it grew in Rachael’s womb, so logically to the characters it would’ve grown outside of it. I guess it hypothetically could’ve been capped but as far as most of the characters knew, the child was an unintended birth and not Tyrell’s design.


#208

I was legitimately asking lol, I seriously had no idea. It’s definitely a solid point you’re making. In the end, the whole development is a crisis, and the “born replicant” is referred to as a child throughout, so it would make sense that K would refer to it that way. Good news now, details later.


#209

My mother and I saw this movie together this weekend. I watched the first one and didn’t really know how I felt about it, because it wasn’t at all what I had expecting. It was unlike any sci-fi I had ever experienced. I heard that this film was an excellent successor to the original and shared the tone, so this time I knew exactly what I was getting into.

I was utterly captivated by this film, and despite its length, enjoyed every minute of it. Ryan Gosling was Ryan Gosling, but it worked. I especially enjoyed his companion, and the scene where she paired with the prostitute was beautifully executed and one of my favorite scenes.

At the end where Ryan Gosling said “The best memories are hers.” was brilliant and beautiful.

A few pieces that didn’t work for me so well, were the moment you realized K was the copy, his character lost motive and therefore made the last fight less thrilling since I no longer felt like he had anything to fight for. Once he told Deckard that he was taking him to see his daughter completely rekindled my investment in the character, and I felt they wrapped things up excellently.

Also the reveal of the planned Replicant revolution kind of made me roll my eyes because it felt like a weak, cliche addition to tell the viewer the story wasn’t over yet. I would love to see more of this world, but I can’t see another detective story working during a replicant uprising and war, which is something that makes these movies so special and unique.

I do feel compelled to go back and give the original another watch.


#210

If Replicants were effectively immortal, not ageing, it would be a bigger story then their existence in the first place. People would want to apply that “fix” the natural born humans.

Replicants are just humans with some things tweaked for their role as slaves. They’re stronger (so that can work harder), heal better (self repair), can learn faster (to carry out their tasks) etc. They were short-lived for a while, as a security measure, and they have fake memories to help stabilise their personalities since their created as adults, so they can go straight to work.

And as far as these stories goes, I think the key point remains; replicants are people. Everything in the stories we’ve had underlines that.

The attitude of that society; that replicants are somehow different enough to be treated as property, is wrong.

So for the people making either film to do anything that plays into that attitude would be a serious miss step in telling the story.


#211

Even down to how they refer to the hunting down and killing of replicants. It is called Retiring, which is a hell of a euphemism for what it actually involves. And the movie shows exactly how horrible that is.


#212

Yes, when they find out it was a replicant who is pregnant, K’s boss (Robin Wright), says a pregnant replicant is impossible.


#213

Not to mention Jared Leto’s monologue about how he can’t produce enough Replicants to meet demands, so he’s been trying to produce a model that can reproduce. Therefore the fact that one exists is a big deal and is why there is a huge race to get their hands on the born Replicant. One wants to destroy it to end the technology, the other wants to study it to expand the technology.


#214

Wallace is also insane.

It’s one of the problems I had with the movie, the dialogue, the scenes and Leto’s performance basically presents Wallace as a messianic narcissist.

He’s not just working on technology, he’s trying to play god for the future of the human species.


#215

:crazy_face:


#216

Also, and I don’t think that link covers it, in Philip K Dick’s original Deckard was definitely human and in fact had a wife (who was dropped for the movie).

He also passes the empathy test proving he is human.


#217

Like is mentioned in that article, I thought it was nebulous for a reason. The specific answer doesn’t matter, but the question “is he or is he not?” followed by “does it really matter?” is kind of the point of the whole story.


#218

Yeah, he’s definitely human in the book. That article says Scott maintains Deckard is a replicant, though.


#219

No doubt Scott wanted him to be a replicant but Dick, Ford and the screenplay writer’s maintained he was human.

I actually read the original book when it came out. Might even still have it somewhere in the library though probably not.


#220

I think I misread your original comment. I thought you were saying Scott had since been convinced that Deckard’s a human.


#221

Blade Runner 2049 - When I was a film major years ago, I took a cinema theory class where we watched the first Blade Runner. Most of the discussion period was consumed with the professor trying to convince me and others that the film was about feminism with Rachael trying to live as a woman in a man’s world. I still hold that film was about what it means to be human and believe this film only further extends that metaphor.

In the beginning of the film, it is obvious that K and Joi are not what is considered human in this world. As it progresses, those layers of prejudice and anonymity are stripped away to show just how special, unique and human they both are. It should have been obvious early when Deckard and Wallace pay almost no attention to him but K finding out that he is not the chosen one is a hammer blow that at first seems like misdirection. Then, the bridge scene hammers home just how un-unique he and his Joi really are. That’s the point when K makes the decision that seems most human, defies what all parties have told him to do and does what he thinks is best.

If you start pulling on the strings of the plot of this film, it unravels pretty quickly. How can Replicants that can reproduce help Wallace build them faster when he can grow one into an adult in much less time that it would take for one to mature at a natural rate? How did Deckard’s daughter get the irradiated horse with her birthday carved on the bottom? There are plenty other questions that people will theorized for years but I really think are just gaps in the plot that were traded for other means.

To that end, the plot elements of this film could have been handled in about half the run time. However, the real joy of this film was how visually and aurally stunning it was. That each shot lingered just a bit longer than you would expect or that each sound seemed to only deepen this world was so amazing along with how those things intertwined. So even I, the eternal champion of the 90 minute film, think the extended length and sheer indulgence of the cinematographer was a feature and not a bug.

As such, this was definitely not a wall to wall non-stop action film but it did have some great action set pieces. The fight between K and Sapper was pretty great. I also thought K vs. Deckard amidst the wreckage of a casino show room was pretty great. My favorite bit of action was probably Deckard running through the doorway and shutting and locking the door behind him only to have K bust through the wall beside him.

This film definitely played to the strengths of its cast. Ryan Gosling isn’t a particularly charismatic actor. So his stoic nature plays perfect to K’s Replicant emotions. Jared Leto works perfectly as the slightly unhinged megalomaniac Wallace. Harrison Ford as Harrison Ford playing Deckard has the perfect swagger and disregard for others. Dave Batista, Robin Wright and Carla Juri were pretty great too. The stand out was probably Ana de Armas as Joi. She’s really the anchor that Gosling’s K is tethered to.

This was a really stunning film that I’m glad I took the time to see. I think its substance is much more in its visual language and music than plot though and I’m OK with that.


#222

I think on the simple end that the dramatic through line of the story was overly obscured by an ambiguity that the movie didn’t need. The truth is that out of even the relatively few people who’ve seen any of the cuts of BLADE RUNNER, still the majority of them didn’t like it. Mainly because it’s aesthetic principles have been used endlessly in more popular shows and movies.

The appeal of Blade Runner isn’t its ambiguity but it’s style and the sequel went even more in the ambiguous direction without really doing anything that much more stylistic. I admit that it evolved upon the original themes but it forced me to intellectually dig into those and left me with no clear emotional impact.

The original was still clearly noir enough that you didn’t have to work for it. This one didn’t want to do anything to draw me in, which is admirable but not entertaining.

I still love the original, but this one can be someone else’s baby.


#223

Hmm. Can I ask you a few questions?

  1. It’s your birthday. Someone gives you a calfskin wallet. How do you react?

  2. You’ve got a little boy. He shows you his butterfly collection plus the killing jar. What do you do?

  3. You’’re watching television. Suddenly you realize there’s a wasp crawling on your arm.

  4. You’re reading a magazine. You come across a full-page nude photo of a girl/guy. You show it to your husband/wife. He/She likes it so much, he/she hangs it on your bedroom wall. The girl/guy is lying on a bearskin rug.


#224

I should also mention that the design and the way they were evolutions of things introduced in the first film were incredible. I love how prominent brands like Atari and Peugeot are in this world even though they’ve receded a bit in our own. My favorite item is probably the new spinner. There are just a ton of small details that are so perfect in the movie.