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Black Panther - Discussion with SPOILERS


#61

If I get worked up about it without having seen it (we saw this happen with Star Wars, too), it’s because I fear the mischief, even if unfounded, even if it doesn’t become distorted. I fear what could happen if people apply the wrong lessons from it. And outside this geek bubble, people have tried doing that already. My point is, if this is a massive success, as some people expect, the possibility for distortion is greatly outsized in comparison to other superhero movies, and it’s worth noting, because that’s exactly why I hadn’t planned to see it right away. (But then, I still haven’t seen Doctor Strange; my days of catching all these Avengers movies right away have ended.) Or perhaps at all, because I really didn’t want to be part of a misguided crusade, one that splits apart rather than builds up. But again, it sounds, from the further things I’ve heard about it, that maybe I don’t need to worry. Still valid fears, though, especially in these heated times.


#62

See the film, because until then all you have is fear.

There’s genuinely no point in debating with second hand information on something that you can find out about for yourself.


#63

Saw it tonight. I enjoyed it quite a bit - there are a few sections where it sags slightly, but the freshness of the overall aesthetic (even if Wakanda is a bit Asgard-like) and the charisma of the cast makes up for it. Letitia Wright is especially great.

I saw it in a very full cinema, with an enthusiastic audience, and all the big moments went down very well. The car chase especially was a lot more fun that it looked from the trailer, with some fun imaginative tech.

I especially liked the way the elements involving Wakanda’s relationship with the world were handled, and the conclusion that the story led to (and the way Killmonger’s worldview played into that). It had a bit more depth and thoughtfulness behind it than a lot of the Marvel movies do.

I also loved all the Bond-esque touches, from the Q-style gadget scenes to the casino setpiece. Serkis makes for a good over-the-top Bond-style villain.


#64

But this is the kind of useful information that can allay fears, because clearly even Coogler and his collaborators knew this response was possible, and to Marvel’s credit it’s why Coogler was given the reins in the first place. Which I suppose is something I ought to have appreciated sooner. Clearly greater effort than usual, the way the Captain America films (2 and 3), and even Ragnarok, were created, knowing that special effort was needed.

Without that kind of reassurance, I really had no reason to watch it. Critics have made a habit in recent years to celebrate movies for the wrong reasons. This is above and beyond the perceived Avengers bias, which is itself the kind of viewer reaction I’m talking about, a kind of conditioning to expect and accept a certain kind of logic, and reject out of hand anything that’s outside of or deviates from it.

So to hear these positive things, these positives, and to have expressed how I formulated my concerns, I find value in that. I’m not complaining to complain, rejecting just to reject, which are impulses far too common in our circles, I know. I know I found Ragnarok a little too jokey. I tried to assert a different interpretation of that one, after having seen it. I was blown back handily. I’m inclined to doubt about Avengers movies, as I generally prefer the aesthetic of the Justice League movies. I find the filmmaking more credible. But clearly audiences find the Avengers more enjoyable. And that’s about what you should expect from blockbusters.

…Carry on, people-who-have-actually-seen-it-and-are-discussing-that


#65

Mods, delete this. Thanks.


#66

I definitely think we’ll get sequels - we are bound to at this point, my mum was able to tell be how many people watched it already, it’s a phenomenon of sorts and I’m really glad there’s such a good ensemble to move forward. I loved Killmonger’s character, I think he and Klaue had a lot more to give, but the ‘good’ side of the cast are brilliant ( I definitely agree about Kaluuya) and M"Baku was particularly great in his later scenes, I think the sequels could see Wakandans like like him in the US in a Coming to America/Crocodile Dundee type senario with a lighter touch, if Cogler can make that work.

Wakanda works for some and not for others but I did go in thinking it would be a direct bridge to the sci-fi world beyond earth and I think it played that well for me, only really wanting that out of it.


#67

Just Tried to take my wife to see it tonight. We live in predominantly middle eastern/Asian/Italian neighborhood. It was showing every hour and was still completely sold out for the next two showtimes.


#68

Every showing at my cinema on Tuesday was rammed and it was on two screens with staggered start times. It’s going to rake in crazy money.


#69

#70

Holy crap your right.

This is the Bond movie I didn’t know I wanted.
Letitia Wright needs to be the Marvel universes Q.

She was outstanding.


#71

I don’t know if it was my favorite Marvel film but I thought this was the first Marvel movie that felt like a real movie. I think it was partly because it took place at night quite often (weirdly rare for a Marvel film) and also because there were people beyond the 4-5 main characters that felt real; the world felt lived in.

I know my opinion is an outlier with regards to the humor in these movies but to me it’s refreshing to see a Marvel film where they have real confidence in the material and don’t feel the need to cram it with jokes in order to sell it.

I don’t think I will ever get used to Freeman’s American accent.

Anyway, good stuff. Very well done.


#72

@Mike saw the film a few days before I did and he mentioned it then. Well what he actually said was that Shuri and Q should team up!

He’s got a point.

In addition to Shuri though, that scene in the casino is very similar to the one in ‘Skyfall’.

Someone will probably do a supercut mixing the two together at some point.



#73


It’d be a quirky Marvel spin-off hit fer shure


#74



#75

So, question… how much does this tie to the MCU? 'cause I’m not really in the mood to go to the movies these days, but with IW coming out soon, I doubt this will be available on home-release before that, and it’d be a shame to miss something important =/

So I guess the question is, would you say it’s relevant to watch this before IW?


#76

There’s no major overt setting up for Infinity War, other than further establishing Wakanda and its advanced technology in the context of the Marvel Universe. The BP supporting cast look like they’ll also be seen in Infinity War, and the second post-credits scene confirms that Bucky is up and around again.

What might be more interesting though is if the Soul Gem is revealed to have been present in Black Panther. There’s nothing in the film that makes that connection explicit … but the Wakandan ancestral plane seen in several scenes looks and feels an awful lot like the Soulworld seen inside the Soul Gem in the comics, and where Adam Warlock and others spent a fair degree of time. The vibranium asteroid is a reasonable MCU contender for how the Soul Gem may have found its way to Earth.

But I think if you have a basic knowledge of the Black Panther/Wakanda you’ll be fine for Infinity War. I’d say it’d be a shame to miss it though as it’s one of the stronger MCU entries.


#77

Another aspect that, apart from the last few epilogue scenes, it’s set almost directly after civil war in terms of timeline. In someways it feels a bit like a sequel to it.


#78

Yeah, Nakia hasn’t heard about T’Chaka’s death at the start of the movie, so it’s probably a few weeks after CW at most.


#79

Oh ok thanks… Well I might go watch it, it’s just I’m a bit over the whole going to watch every single SH movie… Already skipped Homecoming, Logan and a couple other and I didn’t regret it :smile:

I’m thinking I’ll just skip 'em once Thanos is done (either IW or A4, depending).

But from the reviews I’ve watched it seems the movie not only adressed what I thought was the very dangerous theme, but it’s actually the whole premise of the movie, so I’m quite interested in seeig how they handle that aspect more than anything else.


#80

“I love the Infinity Stones as much as any comic book fan, it’s just Wakanda already has its thing, which is Vibranium. For us, that was special enough, so to throw in something, like another special thing, didn’t feel right. It felt like we should stick with our one MacGuffin for the country and explore that, let that be the important thing because, frankly we didn’t need to have another piece like that. The studio was never really interested in putting a stone in there, either.”