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Black Panther - Discussion with SPOILERS


#1

Reviews are in, and to nobody’s surprise they’re largely positive so far:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/black_panther_2018







Out here next Tuesday, in the US Friday week, so watch for spoilers. I can’t wait.


#2

Tuesday afternoon at 2pm I think I get to see it. Looking forward to it.


#3

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#8

Back in April, Vanity Fair‘s Joanna Robinson saw the early scene, which featured a brief moment of flirtation between two women of the Dora Milaje, T’Challa’s team of devoted female warriors. Robinson described the scene, which featured Danai Gurira’s Okoye and Florence Kasumba’s Ayo, as such:

In the rough cut of this Black Panther scene, we see Gurira’s Okoye and Kasumba’s Ayo swaying rhythmically back in formation with the rest of their team. Okoye eyes Ayo flirtatiously for a long time as the camera pans in on them. Eventually, she says, appreciatively and appraisingly, ‘You look good.’ Ayo responds in kind. Okoye grins and replies, ‘I know.’

During a phone interview, I talked to Black Panther co-writer Joe Robert Cole about the deleted scene and how it suggested a gay relationship between Ayo and Okoye. When I asked him whether it was originally written that way or if there was ever any intention of including the World of Wakanda queer love story in the film, he said yes. And then his explanation for the change got a bit muddled from there.

I think the short answer is yes. I know that there were quite a few conversations around different things, different directions with different characters, and characters that we may have. We thought, ‘Well, maybe we’ll work it this way with an arc or work it that way with an arc.’

The scene you’re talking about, I don’t remember. I can’t remember the exact exchange you’re talking about, but I think it was really brief. I’m not sure. I know that it was not – there wasn’t some major theme through that we were looking to explore with that in terms of the story. We didn’t like, pull out a full thread of some theme. But your friend quite possibly could be right, or I’m maybe having a brain fart here and just can’t remember.

It sounds like the filmmakers played with the idea of gay characters, alongside other relationship dynamics, but we’re still left with some questions. In the movie – minor SPOILER alert – there is no flirtation between any of the Dora Milaje. Instead, Okoye is depicted as straight and in a relationship with Daniel Kaluuya’s W’Kabi. (Curiously, their romance gets very little screentime even though it plays an important role during a crucial scene late in the film.


#9

As far as The Independent is concerned…in what way have the Man of Steel films not been political? Seriously? If anything, these have been movies that have been rejected because they reflect the real world too much. Which is the whole point of escapism Avengers movies, and why they’ve been so successful. I’ve seen nothing about Black Panther to suggest it bucks this trend.


#10

#11

Kids cosplaying in BP-inspired costumes:


#12

Are they really kids cosplaying, or are they child models dressed up for professional photoshoots?

Because I think there’s an important difference.


#13

Could be real, some cosplay photos are fully professional quality.

But anyway, this is legit, dad and his daughter, both Blade fans (although she looks a little young to have seen the film yet TBH);

He looks more like Wesley Snipes than Snipes does!


#14

Supposed to be seeing it in half an hour but as I am a good brother and uncle I’m going to wait for my sister to fiinish work and go with her and my nephews.

I feel I am sacrificing a great deal, she better be buying the popcorn!


#15

Got out of jury duty 15 minutes before a screening this morning, so I went to a 11:30 screening. I really enjoyed it.

Not as funny as most of the other Marvel movies, and doesn’t need to be. It looks great, the cast are all excellent, and it’s not too long.

Some other points:

  • Loved Letitia Wright as Shuri. I’ve been a fan ever since Banana/Cucumber, and I really hope she breaks out after this.

  • Michael B. Jordan is definitely one of the best Marvel villains. It feels weird to compare him to Tom Hiddleston, as they’re doing very different things.

  • It starts a bit too slowly, with two separate prologue scenes. It’s kind of needed for the story, but it definitely doesn’t get the movie off on the right foot.

  • Some of the third act stuff doesn’t quite work, with one character having a change of heart that’s never explained and doesn’t feel justified, and the villain giving up a bit too easily.

  • The Daniel Kaluuya/Danai Gurira relationship was almost definitely added in reshoots. There’s one throwaway line about it at the start, and then they never speak until the climactic moment where the battle hinges on their relationship. It doesn’t work at all.

  • Freeman’s role is smaller than I expected. He’s good, but not all that necessary.

  • I’m very happy they didn’t try to shoehorn in any crossovers with the other Marvel movies. They’re never even referenced, IIRC.

  • Denzel Whitaker plays Young Forest Whitaker in the flashbacks. They’re not related, but Denzel played Forest’s son in The Great Debaters. This is one of the only times I’ll get to reference The Great Debaters.

  • Angela Bassett is fine, but doesn’t get anything to do, which is a shame.


#16

I just saw and it pretty much agree with all of Paul’s points. Thoroughly enjoyable. The war rhinos was a good moment that went down well in my showing. Loved Shuri’s Q moments.


#17

#18

Just saw it. Agree with everything you say here.
Needs a big screen experience.
My cinema was tiny


#19

That is the most excited I have ever seen an audience in my local (North London) cinema EVER.

At one key moment, a woman’s voice from the back rang out “girl, just kill that motherfucker!” which worked amazingly well :grin:

Really enjoyed that. A few minor quibbles (M’Baku’s plot needed a wee bit more to it in particular) but a grand addition to the MCU.


#20

There was the “Another white boy to fix,” line, plus Bucky at the end but that’s all I can remember. Loved the kids using shellhead masks to mess with him.