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A thread on storytelling...


#341

Is David Dunn an alien?


#342

Hm… Artistic vs commercial storytelling (according to Alex Cox).


#343

Oh, and I never meant to say that Raiders or Superman I sucked, just that if you look closely…


#344

I mentioned earlier about the Star Trek movie reboot and the same can be said about Mission Impossible.

I am a fan of the 60’s show and I wished that the movies were more of a real team effort than a Tom Cruise one man show. Then again it may be tough to do that as it would look a lot like the Ocean xx movies…


#345

Some things have fell off with today’s audience

Musicals even though Spielberg is reviving West Side Story

Lone Ranger

Tarzan

Robin Hood


#346


:face_with_raised_eyebrow:


#347

I think they meant good musicals.


#348

If anything, musicals are more popular now than they’ve been in a long time. I count at least 4 in the Top 30 for 2018 (US box office): A Star is Born; Bohemian Rhapsody; Mary Poppins Returns; and Mamma Mia: Here We Go Again. When was the last time that happened?


#349

As for the Lone Ranger, Tarzan, and Robin Hood, my feeling is that these are iconic heroes who just need the right script and directors willing to be true to those icons.


#350

That is like my posting of the Silver Age comics. They are campy by today’s standards and would have to be tweaked.

As for musicals by definition I meant the old style musicals where the character would break out a song and dance number. Those have fallen away.


#351

As for musicals by definition I meant the old style musicals where the character would break out a song and dance number. Those have fallen away.

No, they have come back and apparently you weren’t watching. You’re saying this two years after exactly that kind of old-style musical has made a huge amount of money and has won ten oscars or so. La La Land was a huge success. And that sucess pushed movies like The Greatest Showman. Musicals are back in vogue, at least for the moment. We’ll see how long it lasts.


#352

I think what we’ve seen that helps musicals in cinemas is repeat viewing. Music is suited to that and the added ‘singalong’ releases brings people back to watch in theatres. It very notable they don’t open very strongly but the likes of Mamma Mia and The Greatest Showman stay in the top 10 for months.


#353

Yeah, there has been a slow and steady resurgence in musicals over the past decade or so.

The 70s were sort of the last hurrah for the movie musical with Hair, RHPS, Tommy, and The Wiz.

The 80s were mostly a dry spell, aimed at kids (Annie), ironic/novelties (Little Shop of Horrors), or animated.

Evita, Moulin Rouge!, and Phantom of the Opera seemed to have kicked off a sort of renaissance in the genre.


#354

Les Miserables too.


#355

Possibly, but there have also been significant shifts in cultural context that made those heroes work. You could also throw King Arthur and Zorro into that list.

Tarzan is probably the one with the most universal appeal, but the most recent big budget movie had a great deal of difficulty trying to fit the horrific realities of African history into a pulp hero context. Hell, I think it would be difficult to see a film like Raiders today with all the shifting context around World War 2 and the Holocaust.

With that in mind, if they had made a “Tarantino Tarzan” in the style of Django Unchained where the historical anger is hardcore and front and center, people might get into it.

However, my favorite Tarzan is still the old school Johnny Weismuller sexy “pre-code” original movie that had very little to do with the book.

But I also loved the old television series when I was a kid, but the stories of the disastrous level of production unsafety are appalling.


#356

OK …

I will concede the musicals argument but the latest musicals are more of an homage to the old style and Broadway musicals and still have to be tweaked …

If Speilberg’s remake of West Side Story works then…

My point overall was that storytelling has changed for the era and that some genres are almost gone and outdated. Silent movies anyone?

On another point I posted… How many have tried to bring back Robin Hood, Tarzan, and the Lone Ranger to name a few?

Even the James Bond movies of the 60’s where Connery goes through so many women like Kleenex…
that aspect is a thing of the past.

More points to come later.


#357

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#358

Yeah, but that’s more about the conventions than the genre. Silent films are not a genre but a medium - or even artistic convention today. There are silent horror movies. Silent comedies, silent love stories, crime thrillers and so on. Same for black and white movies and television.

However, if the Coen brothers did a new eccentric take on The Lone Ranger like they did with the Singing Cowboy trope, it could be a big hit. Or if Tyler Sheridan wrote a Lone Ranger movie set in the present day dealing with the current acts of injustice in the contemporary western US (like WIND RIVER or HELL OR HIGH WATER), it could be great. The idea of a lone agent of justice standing up against overwhelmingly powerful evil is more popular today than ever. What’s fallen out of stye are elements of the story like the Tonto sidekick.


#359

I think things have truly changed for Tarzan, as Jonny explained above. This is one example where you can see that the world has moved on and that it is really hard to adapt certain characters to the new circumstances. So yeah, he’s a good example for what you were saying. Other characters adapted well - you mentioned Bond, and he’s different than he was in the 60s but still recognisably Bond.

Robin is not a great example for what you’re saying, as there have been as many Robin Hood adaptations as ever in the last twenty years. He was never gone from the screens.

So the current one wasn’t successful because it is a bit crap. But that’s all it is. There is no inherent problem with Robin Hood - quite the opposite, I would say: The hero standing up against an autocrat and fighting for the poor is as relevant as ever today.

I think a Robin Hood movie emphasising those aspects could’ve been greatly successful.

I don’t know about the Lone Ranger, on the other hand. Not every character that had a popular TV show can be restarted endlessly. I am not sure he ever was a good enough character to keep around forever.


#360

I’d like to see that in upcoming films (if they are made, ofc), but hope it won’t give anyone ideas like it did to Eric Esquivel.