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A special Millar Marvel or DC project next year?


#164

Mark’s opinion on Lex was perfectly crystalized, I think, in his two uses of the character in Superman Adv and Red Son. You’d do well to check those out, to get it more artfully demonstrated for you. :slight_smile:

Honestly, Mark’s Lex Luthor is perhaps the best I’ve ever seen, slightly beating out Morrison and Azz. Love it.


#165

Lois! Talk about Lois! :smile:


#166

Ive read Red Son of course.

Ive never been able to get my hands on Adventures (but I think its collected now?)


#167

It is!


#168

Yeah, I’m really interested in Mark’s views on Lois, too. His thoughts on the Superman mythos in this thread have been really fascinating. But the idea that Superman doesn’t truly love Lois makes me a little sad. Why can’t romantic love exist alongside his love and devotion to humanity?


#169

I think he does - but he needs to “be” Clark to love her like that. When he’s Superman he can’t think like that, because his base nature is to think holistically and perfectly, and there’s no room to focus just on Lois.

I think Lois probably understands that too – he’s an alien so there’s a part of him that she can never ever really know, and that’s the “Superman” part (but as Mark and Maggin said, that’s also the part of him she loves).

I thought it was interesting thinking about the three-faces take in the context of Batman because it’s kind of the reverse. Bruce Wayne comes first and he adopts the Batman identity for the purpose of terrorizing criminals (as opposed to Superman adopting the Clark identity for the purpose of becoming human), but Bruce also has a false public identity which exists to ridicule any investigators who might make a connection between the two, and his real identity is the Bruce Wayne we see in the cave when he’s with Alfred. Superman on the other hand has the fortress, but no Alfred, so he’s far more alone, and has a far bigger responsibility than Bruce.


#170

But why would his base nature be this way? Jor-El and Lara were in love.


#171

Yes, but they were Kryptonian, and neither were exposed to a yellow sun.
Superman operates on a higher level with inhuman skillsets.
It’s like, to me, in the Departed, or those films where cops go undercover - they love their girlfriends/wives when they’re at home, but absolutely cannot risk demonstrating that when they’re undercover, and conversely they never show their wives/girlfriend that character because they don’t want their sig. other to comprehend that side of them.

Superman’s like that dialled up to 11; his undercover loves Lois, but his true self loves Lois only through Clark, because Superman’s love can’t comprehend a singular love, and instead loves all of humanity.


#172

Hmm, that makes a lot of sense, although I think it only fits with certain stories. It’s certainly something I’d love to see Mark explore! (That’s my vote cast.)

I think the romance angle is interesting to look at with Batman, too. For most superheroes–Flash, GL, Spider-Man, Thor, etc–it’s taken for granted that they live rich romantic lives. But with the two most iconic heroes, a lot of their biggest fans and most famous writers reject that idea. Superman loves humanity, Batman only has time for Gotham. I’m not sure what about Superman and Batman makes them different in this regard, especially since Superman/Lois is the most famous romance in comics and Batman is always flirting with Catwoman and Talia (not to mention his relationships with Vicki Vale and Silver St. Cloud, to name a few).


#173

Batman’s a slut; Superman’s a prude?


#174

Well, Superman’s also had high profile relationships with Lana Lang and Wonder Woman. I’d say he’s a serial monogamist. :wink:


#175

If Superman is God and Clark is Jesus then it’s obvious who Lois represents and how her relationship to Superman/Clark should be portrayed.


#176

Lois is the Devil!

Almost a century of Superman stories have got it wrong!!!


#177

Mary Magdalene has been demonised by some, I guess.


#178

But if Lois is the Holy Spirit, then she is sort of spreading the influence of Superman.

If she’s Mary Magdalene, things are a lot more interesting though.


#179

Jor_El is the Holy Spirit, no?


#180

Ohhh… yeah, that makes sense.


#181

I’ve just thought of something really stupid.

Does that mean Superman Returns is actually sort of a remake or reinterpretation of The Da Vinci Code?

Maybe that’s the real reason some people aren’t so keen on the movie.


#182

I think Singer laid on the religious iconography a pick too thick.

I really enjoyed it at the time, but in hindsight, Superman hanging outside the kids window was a bit much. Still, when he has super-hearing he’s kind of stalking everyone all the time, isn’t he?

(Gasp! Superman is Samaritan!)


#183

The 70’s movie is full on with the Christ stuff.

As referenced in the teaser trailer for ‘Superman Returns’;