Kandor is part of the tragedy, though. It’s not as though Kandor is just having out in normal space. It’s this gross momento of his homeworld, this stunted reminder of all he’s lost. It’s also a challenge, lingering perpetually in the background, and a failure he has to accept.
It really adds to the loneliness if you show that he doesn’t belong among the remaining Kryptonians either.
Also excellent point. He’s first generation (as I am). The past is a different country; they do things DIFFERENTLY there. They look like you, but they do not think like you, or speak like you. And what you know of them is often outdated, and incomplete. Nothing quite like going back to the countries of your parents, even the country of your birth, and feeling more out of place than ever. Maybe sadder when you see little swatches of yourself in it.
As Federov said, “Sometimes even your kin are not your kin.”
These are the sorts of themes that I thought Gene Yang would be able to explore in his run, but I guess not.
How do we feel about ghost Jor-El? He can be as helpful as the Kents, right? Not comforting but knowledgeable.
I don’t love the idea of just being able to call up some sort of Jor-El AI. A computer interface that uses Jor-El’s face and voice but with the cold sterility of a computer – that’s more in line with Kandor.
I don’t love it in any case because it’s just a little too ‘info-dumpy’ and easy shortcut, one that closes off as many avenues as it opens up. I’m not opposed to some sort of receptacle of krytponian information, but my gut says that it should either be difficult/dangerous to use or to reach.
In a shared continuity, you have to realize that others are going to have to write stories after - or even concurrently with - you. An expos-machine might handily solve a problem you’re having in your story, but it may make future stories (relying on mystery, lack of specific knowledge, etc) more difficult.
I’m not a huge fan of Kandor as an ongoing thing in the Fortress. I think Godfall and DKIII have used them to good effect. It’s not a commentary on Superman’s loneliness it’s a constant reminder of his active failure.
But … but … but.
The Superman Emergency Squad!
They’re like the coolest thing ever.
Eek. You just proved my point.
I think the only logical end for Kandor is something like what happened in the Godfall, New Krypton or DKIII storylines. I can’t imagine them not hating him.
Well, I might have over exaggerated somewhat. But I have their original appearance somewhere, and it’s a fun Jimmy Olsen story.
New Krypton was a good idea I think, but it was really stretched out.
You’re making me excited for DKIII now. I still haven’t started it.
Are you saying that Superman should have freed Kandor from its bottle already, or that Brainiac should never have taken it in the first place?
He should have freed them, enlarged them or figured out some better scenario than keeping them as pets. I don’t think they would be particularly inclined to like him. All-Star Superman is the only good Kandor story where they don’t hate Superman’s guts.
You must, right now, go catch up on Neal Adams’ The Coming of the Supermen. You too, @Mark_Millar! Darkseid. Luthor. Granny Goodness. Rafi. Lois.
And y’all remember, around before the Nu52, I was campaigning to have Lois Lane killed off? Superman and Lois always flirted. Consummating the relationship was an error. We get here right into “loneliness” versus “alone”. “Lonliness” is a thirst, a need for affiliation, rooted in survival and sex. It’s a drive, a motivator. “Being alone” acknowledges a current reality; it is more of a component of the personality than a drive, it might be called a “state”.
So, Batman is lonely; Superman is alone.
Which reinforces Mark’s understanding of losing a planet and ancestors, losing foster parents, even losing one’s own identity in a cover story. Kal-El tends to stand alone, hence things like creating a Fortress of Solitude! Batman is lonesome, hence the drive, the craving, performing social duties as Bruce Wayne (including the er… “dating”), and constant approach/avoidance conflict when it comes to his Bat-Family.
I’m sure either story will rock… mark is an outstanding writer but I’m just not excited about the old superheroes anymore… yes they r classic iconic characters that will continue to have great stories told about them but I want more millarworld stuff personally… but hey… get that $$$ and that itch off your chest mark… just please give us a nemesis sequel sometime soon… please!
Just from a strategic point of view – if it’s likely you’ll do both, as much as I’m sure it might pain some people here: I think the smarter move is to do the Marvel one first.
The chief reason being you were a Marvel guy for a long time and have a built in audience there – Marvel as a brand is riding high at the moment (even if the comic sales might not reflect that) and publishing a Marvel work could capitalise on both your built in audience of loyalists and new readers that might come to the book via a media blitz.
Then jump on over to DC - the people there who were going to buy your Superman book were always going to buy it, but with the good word of mouth following the relatively recent Marvel work you’ll have young readers who jumped on to DC with Rebirth (who don’t necessarily skew outside the Big two) interested as well as your established loyalists.
I don’t know - maybe the logic is a bit skewy but I thought Id put it out there.
Ha. I wouldn’t do it for $$$, Twebb. MW pays a lot more than Big 2. Remember we get movies, toys, merch, trades and all publishing and all digital revenues (big companies take the bulk of that). Our foreign deals alone is around the same as biggest American rates as everything from Sueprscrooks to Kingsman to Starlight appearing everywhere from France to Israel and Japan since Kick-Ass opened up those markets for us.
Creator-owned actually works out really well for a lot of pros at the moment, but sometimes there’s just a fanboy itch to do those characters you used to dress up as. I love DC in particular and it’s been a while so as a one off special project would be so cool. You can see how I can’t stop talking about it here
Oh my God I love this thread so much I might cry
I knew you would. I just knew it.
That’s awesome… I actually had a discussion with my wife about the subject… and came to the conclusion that most ppl grow up loving certain characters and have stories they would luv to tell about those characters…
My fan boy itches would be Bloodstrike and Diehard… all the other iconic characters have many great stories concerning them… but not those 2… one day I’ll get to scratch my itch too…
I do luv the passion u have for comics and the characters… the excitement rubs off so keep it coming… it’s inspiring!
Oh, yeah. My elderly fanboy itches for you to write Supes and me write Bats when they again Versus each other. I know you would want Snyder, but that boy is busy.
It’s a bitch being competitive and frustrated at the same time!
I so desperately want to see Immonen do Superman again…I mean, I love what he’s doing in Empress, which is the closest he’s come in years to his Superman work, but I would love even more if he and Mark teamed up again, for Superman…
As for the Superman/Clark Kent dichotomy, I’m about to propose something that’ll sound pretty bizarre, but hear me out:
Superman is basically the world’s greatest guard dog. Every dog is separated from its parents. That’s what happened to Superman, right? When it’s adopted into a family, the dog takes on two personas. The first is what everyone outside that family takes the dog to be: the guard dog, the dog barking its head off, to protect its family. The second is what the family knows, which is a treasured companion impossible not to love.
In a way, that’s Superman/Clark Kent in a nutshell. We’ve kind of had this model of Clark Kent as the bumbling reporter, because he has to present this image that’s completely different from Superman, but really, Clark Kent is that perfect son, that perfect friend, that perfect human, too, that we’d all love in our lives. He can’t be that as Superman. As Superman, he has to be completely selfless. As Clark Kent, he gets to be completely selfish, not in that he’s a jerk (pay no attention to all those '50s covers behind the curtain!), but that he gets to be happy, because as Superman, he can’t afford to be. Because really, in order to be effective, Superman can’t wait around for adulation. It contradicts everything about his mission. But he can’t be Superman all the time. Even Superman has his limits. So he goes back to what he used to be, just a regular guy who can indulge himself, because the guy doesn’t have a bad bone in his body. He’s impossible not to love, except for people who are jealous of that. In a way, Lex Luthor really is the perfect enemy of both Superman and Clark Kent…
@Mark_Millar -Hi Mark,
Just wanted to ask you a few more qs on the Superman stuff, if okay.
Ill admit, having grown up with Lois & Clark I was a little reserved on the idea of a Superman-first Superman, but having thought about it it makes way more sense than the other way around.
As you said, Clark is a role, and as some actors fall in love with roles, Superman fell in love with Clark (and in the same breath fell in love with humanity?) because Clark is confused and fallible in a way that Superman was never able to know previously.
I think it’s true take that also exposes a bit of psychological nuance, that I never really considered, and I like that a lot.
I was wondering then, if you could give (maybe just brief) thoughts on how you might think Red Kyptonite or mind control might affect that idea? Also, could you offer a little bit of insight into your takes on Luthor and Brainiac (and maybe Lois as she’s had a few different iterations too).