128 replies to this topic

[steveuk]

Hm. I don't know, if you consider the cyberspace stuff as some kind of action, there's probably more action in Neuromancer than there is in Inception. Not that Inception is all that action-heavy, anyway. But Nolan's success is a one-of-a-kind thing, really, so that's not an argument that could be made.

I hope lots of filmmakers are making that argument, and I wish them luck.

You're right. They'll need it.

I don't know that the characters in Neuromancer are all that sympathetic, really. And part of what makes them sympathetic insofar as they are is their brokenness (which is a typical noir thing, really, as is emotional detachment).

It's very noir, as is 'Blade Runner' of course.

But Case isn't defined as a killer, he's defined as suicidal. I think that gives him a edge of sympathy over someone like Deckard.

When it comes down to it, I would far, far more like to see a "Blade Runner"-esque movie than an Inception-esque.

We're not likely to get either for a while, but I'd like a movie I can care about, whatever the production design. I just think character has to predominate over everything else.

(That said, William Gibson apparently loved Inception.)

Smart man.

[Christian U]

We're not likely to get either for a while, but I'd like a movie I can care about, whatever the production design. I just think character has to predominate over everything else.

That's fair enough, certainly, but like I said, it's pretty much a given. There are just some aspects that you need and that you can't make a good movie without - good dialogue and complex and involving characters are among those. But Neuromancer needs more than that, it needs a convincing, dense and frightening world that it takes place in. And in the end, I don't really have an idea which director would be best at the moment to create such a world.

I'm reading a recent article on Natali and Neuromancer that also summarises a lot of what he's said about Neuromancer. It's funny, a lot of what he' saying fits right into our discussion.

"One of the obstacles in the selling of this movie to the industry at large is that everyone says, "Oh, well, The Matrix did it already." Because The Matrix -- the very word "matrix" -- is taken from Neuromancer, they stole that word, I can't use it in our movie. And there are a number of other similarities. But first of all, I like that movie. And second of all, I feel it's a completely different film than what Neuromancer will be because The Matrix is very much a comic book film. It exists in a comic book kind of universe, whereas one of the things that's so extraordinary about the book is that it doesn't feel like a book that was written about the future. It feels like a book that was written from the future, in the future, and so it almost has a documentary -- as poetic as it is, it has a very documentary-like, almost realistic take on what that future world will be. So I felt that that was my window into that world."

"And so this domain, where you project yourself into it as the cyberjockeys do inNeuromancer is not necessarily very friendly for human beings. Whereas wetware, as carbon-based lifeforms, we're really not designed -- evolution hasn't designed us to go into that kind of virtual environment. So it's a very rough ride and only certain people can do it. And it's a very trippy, grey line between once you enter that space between what is generated in your own mind and your own consciousness, and what actually exists as an empirical cyber-reality.
"So I guess what I'm saying is that our version of cyberspace is a much more complicated, messy, and hopefully sophisticated depiction of what that world would be, as opposed toTRON and Matrix -- which again, I love those movies, but in my mind they're a very simplified, kind of Disneyfied or comic bookified version of what that reality might be."

http://thetyee.ca/Ar...romancer-Movie/

Sounds like it's still supposed to happen. I wish him luck, if it does.

(There's also an article in bleeding cool that says Bruce Willis may be sort of attached to the movie. I assume for the character of Armitage.)

Edited by Christian U, 17 February 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[steveuk]

Bright guy, I'm still not a fan but, bright guy.

Willis as Armitage would be fun though.

EDIT:
Hm. The article is not impressing me, 'Johnny Mnemonic' is actually an adaption of the short story of the same name. 'New Rose Hotel' has also been adapted though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rose_Hotel_(film)

Never seen it.

EDIT 2:

And there's a very famous scene in the book where Case walks past a line of phone booths and they're all ringing and the combined sound of these rings makes up his name. We just turned it into a bunch of cell phones doing the same thing. But the changes I made were very cosmetic like that.

Nope, that doesn't actually happen in the book. *sigh*

Losing hope again...

[Johnny Henning]

I don't even remember any phone booths in Neuromancer. I mean, in a world where you can jack into cyberspace, seeing a phone booth would be like walking into a lobby of any business today and seeing one of these at the receptionist desk:

[steveuk]

I don't even remember any phone booths in Neuromancer. I mean, in a world where you can jack into cyberspace, seeing a phone booth would be like walking into a lobby of any business today and seeing one of these at the receptionist desk:

Gibson didn't anticipate the mobile/cell phone.

Still it's not entirely ridiculous that some form of public, pay phone might exist in the future. They haven't disappeared from the real world yet.

Anyway, this is what happens in the book (saves me typing it from my copy), Case is standing next to a phone, about to make a call (I think) when, suddenly, it rings;

Automatically, he picked it up.
"Yeah'?"
Faint harmonics. tiny inaudible voices rattling across some orbital link, and then a sound like wind.
"Hello, Case."
A fifty-lirasi coin fell from his hand, bounced, and rolled out of sight across Hilton carpeting.
"Wintermute, Case. It's time we talk."
It was a chip voice.
"Don't you want to talk, Case?"
He hung up.
On his way back to the lobby. his cigarettes forgotten, he had to walk the length of the ranked phones. Each rang in turn, but only once, as he passed.

http://www.cyberarts...wintermute.html

[Johnny Henning]

Yes - I do recall that.

And thinking - why the hell do they have phone booths in a world where you can jack your mind directly into the network?


Hell, he shoulda watched more STAR TREK.

[steveuk]

Yes - I do recall that.

And thinking - why the hell do they have phone booths in a world where you can jack your mind into the network.

Probably because, while you're in the matrix your sight and sound are heavily compromised, as is your sense of bodily "self".

It's not something you'd want to do for every piece of remote interaction with other people. Sometimes you'd just talk.

[Johnny Henning]

Another character I'd like to see adapted today is Gary Seven from the old Star Trek. He was sorta like an American version of both James Bond and Doctor Who.

Assignment: Earth

The episode "Assignment: Earth" was a television pilot for a proposed series about Gary Seven, a human who lives on Earth but who works for the inhabitants of another planet. His mission was to prevent nuclear war on Earth by sabotaging a missile platform launched by the United States in 1968. Seven is encountered by the crew of the Starship Enterprise, who have been sent back in time by the United Federation of Planets to find out what actually had occurred on Earth in the late 1960s.

Seven's secretary was Miss Roberta Lincoln (portrayed by Teri Garr) and was originally unaware of Seven's origins, thinking she was working for a couple that was researching a new encyclopedia. Seven also had a constant companion in Isis, who at first appears to be an ordinary cat, but is shown to have great intelligence and in fact turns out to be able to alter its shape to become what appears to be a human female, which Miss Lincoln discovers during one scene as Isis changes shape into a human female and then back into a cat.

Powers and abilities

Although Seven is human, he manifests at least one non-human feature: he is insensitive to the impact of the Vulcan nerve pinch, an ability very few human or humanoid characters of the Star Trek universe ever manifested. Seven utilizes a small pen-shaped device called a "servo" which is a tool capable of almost anything. It functions as a communication device, a remote control to his personal transporter, a handheld weapon with both stun and kill settings and enough precision (and restraint) to cut a telephone wire from across a room, a remote manipulator to circuitry and machinery (used to deactivate the force field keeping him in the brig of the USS Enterprise), and a mechanical manipulation device (unscrewing screws, unlocking doors, etc.). (Physically and in terms of function, it had some similarity to the sonic screwdriver used by the Doctor on Doctor Who.)

[Christian U]

Bright guy, I'm still not a fan but, bright guy.

Willis as Armitage would be fun though.

EDIT:
Hm. The article is not impressing me, 'Johnny Mnemonic' is actually an adaption of the short story of the same name. 'New Rose Hotel' has also been adapted though;

You're obviously right on the phone thing (where I suspect Natali is confusing what happens in the novel with what happens in the screenplay), but with the Jonny Mnemonic thing, I think you've misconstrued the sentence structure:

Johnny Mnemonic, an adaptation of a short story featuring Keanu Reaves at his whoa-dudiest as the cyber-cowboy title character; a painful low-budget adaptation of his short story New Rose Hotel; a couple of X-Files episodes with sentient computers and a Gibson-scripted draft of Alien 3that was reduced to scrap except for one concept

Notice there's a comma behind JM (the following bit of the sentence describing that movie) and then a semicolon (meaning the list of Gibson's movie stuff continues with the adaptation of New Rose Hotel).

Edited by Christian U, 18 February 2012 - 08:16 AM.

[steveuk]

You're obviously right on the phone thing (where I suspect Natali is confusing what happens in the novel with what happens in the screenplay),

I'm sure he's confused, which means he's so far into developing the screenplay that he's forgetting which bits have been changed from the book.

I'm not sure that's a good thing?

but with the Jonny Mnemonic thing, I think you've misconstrued the sentence structure:

Yes, that makes more sense.

[Christian U]

I'm sure he's confused, which means he's so far into developing the screenplay that he's forgetting which bits have been changed from the book.

I'm not sure that's a good thing?

Certainly not, but it's not necessarily a terrifying omen, either. It's just something that happens in the process. And apparently, Gibson likes the screenplay they have well enough.

[steveuk]

Certainly not, but it's not necessarily a terrifying omen, either. It's just something that happens in the process. And apparently, Gibson likes the screenplay they have well enough.

Gibson liked the screenplay for 'Johnny Mnemonic'.

Because he wrote it.

I am not reassured.

[Christian U]

To be fair though, I didn't think the problem with Jonny Mnemonic was with the screenplay. More with, like, everything else.

[steveuk]

To be fair though, I didn't think the problem with Jonny Mnemonic was with the screenplay. More with, like, everything else.

Everything else was a problem, but the script was also bad.

Dolph Lungren is not a good actor, but his character was still rubbish. Takeshi Kitano is a pretty good actor, his character still didn't work. In face I'm finding it tough to think of anything that did work?

Gibson should stick to books, short stories and occasional journalism, he's very good at those, not screenplays.

[Christian U]

Everything else was a problem, but the script was also bad.

I would have to see it again, I saw it only the once, back when it was released. I just remember coming away with the impression that it was just horribly, awfully executed, but that there was a decent script somewhere behind it. It's hard to separate, though, when you see the end product.

In face I'm finding it tough to think of anything that did work?

Hm. Well, it had Dina Meyer.

Gibson should stick to books, short stories and occasional journalism, he's very good at those, not screenplays.

That's a harsh opinion, based on a sample of two (well, four if you count the X-Files episodes), only one of which was made

Edited by Christian U, 18 February 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[steveuk]

I would have to see it again, I saw it only the once, back when it was released. I just remember coming away with the impression that it was just horribly, awfully executed, but that there was a decent script somewhere behind it. It's hard to separate, though, when you see the end product.

What was decent was the original idea; the short story itself. Unfortunately they mangled it in translation.

Hm. Well, it had Dina Meyer.

Lovely lady, but her Molly/Sally/Jane was a bit lacklustre. Like everyone else.

That's a harsh opinion, based on a sample of two (well, four if you count the X-Files episodes), only one of which was made

The film was rubbish and the 'X-Files' episode was a bit flat.

I read some of his 'Alien 3' script but never finished it. He just seems to be a lot smarter and more creative when he's NOT writing for the screen.

[Christian U]

I'll say this, the thing that I love most about Gibson's novels is simply his narrative prose.

[steveuk]

[Carlos Mancilla II]

I forgot to add this but I think something like Elder Scrolls or Fable would make an amazing TV show, but now that Game of Thrones has aired, not so much of a need for now but I think would be great later on

[Johnny Henning]

Looks like a nice one.

Mentioned this on another thread, but I'd like to see Philip Wylie's GLADIATOR updated and adapted to film in a sort of FORREST GUMP meets SUPERMAN/BATMAN kinda way.