199 replies to this topic

[Jason Hendriks]

I do wonder, in terms of a longer term plan, as they voted to kil Randall, would the plan now be to kill anyone who happens to come across the farm from here on unless they magically happened to know them from the past? (And there didn't seem any follow up on the fact that Randall said he had known Maggie.)

Randall is sort of a special case. He was, by his own admission, part of a large gang that rapes, pillages, and plunders. He was firing on Rick, Glenn, and Herschel.

Randall knows where the farm is, and he knows that there are people and supplies there. He can leave the farm, regroup with his gang, and lead them there. How much trust are you going to put in this kid who, a few weeks ago, was trying to kill you?

[Jim Ohara]

The main purpose of Randall is to serve as a cipher for Rick trying to keep his humanity when it's really a bad idea. He saves Randall without thinking things through. As a result he now has a new problem. They realize dropping Randall off in the middle of nowhere is almost crueler than killing him, but when it comes time Rick still can't do what's necessary and put a bullet in his head. And no doubt they're going to suffer because of that decision. The entire point of the storyline is to show that there's no place for humanity anymore, in the same way the Sophia storyline was there to prove there's really no hope left for them. It's about as black and dark a TV show as I've ever seen. Shane is the right man for the right time, but Rick doesn't want to become that man. And it's all because Carl is watching him - when at the end of the day he's teaching Carl exactly the wrong things too.

[Chris D]

The main purpose of Randall is to serve as a cipher for Rick trying to keep his humanity when it's really a bad idea. He saves Randall without thinking things through. As a result he now has a new problem. They realize dropping Randall off in the middle of nowhere is almost crueler than killing him, but when it comes time Rick still can't do what's necessary and put a bullet in his head. And no doubt they're going to suffer because of that decision. The entire point of the storyline is to show that there's no place for humanity anymore, in the same way the Sophia storyline was there to prove there's really no hope left for them. It's about as black and dark a TV show as I've ever seen. Shane is the right man for the right time, but Rick doesn't want to become that man. And it's all because Carl is watching him - when at the end of the day he's teaching Carl exactly the wrong things too.

While it's an interesting view of the show, I don't really think that's what it's about. It's a morality play at it's heart and it's offering up both sides of the argument. You clearly think Shane is right. But I really don't think that's going to be the ultimate lesson of the show. Saving Randal in the first place was a bad call by Rick simply because it was a reckless endagerment of his life (along with Glenn and Herschel's). But I think it was made very clear that the kid had zero desire to go back to the group of people who left him to die. If he had, he would have let Rick and Shane drop him off, not said a damn word about knowing Maggie, and found his way back to his people and then led them to the farm.

If not putting a bullet in Randal's head comes back to bite them, it's going to be for one reason. Because after saving his life they proceeded to put him through physical and mental torture for several days/weeks. Which is a result of Rick losing his grip on his compassion and humanity and moving more towards Shane's way of thinking. If the Randal story has been about anything, I'd say it's about the group losing their footing and starting to fracture in the wake of Sophia's death. Rick saves this kid and instead of helping him mend and working to acclimate him to their group (something that probably would have been pretty easy for a lot of reasons), they tie him up, throw him in trunks, chain him in barns, beat the living crap out of him, threaten to kill him, put a gun to his head, etc. And as they are getting more and more reckless as a group, Carl is also getting reckless, wandering off into the woods and provoking zombies.

So yeah, basically I don't think that the ultimate moral of this story is that when everything goes to shit you have to abandon everything just to survive. It would be an interesting story, of course, but (and I know you've read the comics, Jim, but I'll use spoiler tags)

Spoiler

no doubt we're going to get a good taste of what happens when you completely abandon compassion and humanity to get by when the Governor comes around.

[alan martin]

Appreciate the spoiler tags. I did read through a bunch of trades but one storyline in particular got too nasty for me so I stopped reading. And it was years back so my memory is all fuzzy. Trying to leave it that way so thank you.

I do appreciate both your takes (Jim and Chris) on what we've been seeing. I lean more toward Chris' take, but Jim's is a valid one for sure.

I just can't see the makers of the show trying to say that Shane's point of view is the more correct one, as Rick is still our hero. Flawed as he may be. (And with an incredibly annoying wife.)

[Jason Hendriks]

While it's an interesting view of the show, I don't really think that's what it's about. It's a morality play at it's heart and it's offering up both sides of the argument. You clearly think Shane is right. But I really don't think that's going to be the ultimate lesson of the show. Saving Randal in the first place was a bad call by Rick simply because it was a reckless endagerment of his life (along with Glenn and Herschel's). But I think it was made very clear that the kid had zero desire to go back to the group of people who left him to die. If he had, he would have let Rick and Shane drop him off, not said a damn word about knowing Maggie, and found his way back to his people and then led them to the farm.

It's really not that clear. He waited until the last possible moment to divulge that piece of information. Sounds to me like he might have done that in a last ditch attempt to save his ass.

This kid is about as trustworthy as Ben Linus.

[Chris D]

It's really not that clear. He waited until the last possible moment to divulge that piece of information. Sounds to me like he might have done that in a last ditch attempt to save his ass.

This kid is about as trustworthy as Ben Linus.

We don't really know if they gave the kid a chance to talk before that. All we see is him injured and then him being dumped off by Rick and Shane. To me it comes off like they kept the kid quarantine because they had no intention of doing anything other than getting rid of him. To compare him to Ben Linus is a huge overstatement. He just seems like a kid who doesn't want to die. Basically all we see of Randal in every episode is him begging for his life.

I will say that by the time Rick put the gun to his head, he should have pulled the trigger. Because it's going to be a hell of a lot harder building a trust between the group and Randal now than it would have been if they'd tried to accept him into their group right after saving his stupid life.

[Tonycal]

Well that was quite an ending. Very nice mix of homage to the comic and newer stuff.

[Chris D]

I prefer how it was done in the comic, though it was a nicely done scene. Still, I can't believe how lazy the writing has gotten on this show. I'll spoiler tag it since the show hasn't aired on the west coast yet, technically, but

Spoiler

you're trying to tell me that Shane led Rick on this wild goose chase through the woods in order to bring him to a place to kill him. And the spot he chose was in a field right near the farm and not near the corpse of the kid whose neck Shane broke? You know because the kid was kind of a big element to Shane's story. Why would he let Glen and Daryl go off in the direction to find that body too? Them finding the body would have destroyed his whole story. Also, why is it that no one is ever paying attention to what Carl is doing? How hard is it to notice the one kid in your group of 12 people is missing? Really how hard is it to notice that anyone in your tiny group hasn't been seen for awhile (see: Lori disappearing with a car a few episodes back). These people aren't fit to survive if they're that unobservant. And finally...where did all those Walkers come from? Shane, Rick, Glen, and Daryl have been walking those woods all night and ran into NOTHING. And now there are about 100 coming in a big hoard just yards behind Rick?

I'm just really getting fed up with how the show is written at this point. I'll stick with it for next season because I'm interested in seeing a couple characters show up. But I wouldn't be surprised if I jump ship on the show right around the same point in the story that I jumped off the comic.

[antonio]

To be fair, Shane didn't let Darryl and Glen go off in the direction of Randall's body. They only found him after Daryl decided to go back to their starting point and follow the tracks.

And while there are some things that don't quite make sense happening throughout the show, I still like it a lot and feel it's delivering on multiple levels.

[Todd Gambrel]

It was a good episode, though I will agree on the writing. My biggest point of contention is that Rick and Shane walk through the woods, don't see or hear a thing, then when the gun goes off, all of a sudden there are 50 walkers in the woods that Rick and Shane just left?

Really?

[Patrick A]

Also Chris, Shane says "I'm going to tell them he shot you, then I chased him through the woods and broke his neck."

[Chris D]

Also Chris, Shane says "I'm going to tell them he shot you, then I chased him through the woods and broke his neck."

Ah, okay I missed that. It was probably the least of the problems I mentioned, though. People (i.e. Lori) constantly allowing Carl to wander off along with the dozens of walkers that emerge from the woods were much bigger issues that I had. As well as Shane just deciding to kill Rick so close to the farm as that could have easily backfired if anyone from the farm had been outside and noticed them out there.

It wasn't a bad episode, mind you, it's just that I've had issue with the writing during several episodes this season so I'm starting to get very critical of even the smallest things. Also, the Rick/Shane dynamic was probably the best thing the show had going for it, so I'm a bit worried that it will fall apart without it.

[Victor C]

The main purpose of Randall is to serve as a cipher for Rick trying to keep his humanity when it's really a bad idea. He saves Randall without thinking things through. As a result he now has a new problem. They realize dropping Randall off in the middle of nowhere is almost crueler than killing him, but when it comes time Rick still can't do what's necessary and put a bullet in his head. And no doubt they're going to suffer because of that decision. The entire point of the storyline is to show that there's no place for humanity anymore, in the same way the Sophia storyline was there to prove there's really no hope left for them. It's about as black and dark a TV show as I've ever seen. Shane is the right man for the right time, but Rick doesn't want to become that man. And it's all because Carl is watching him - when at the end of the day he's teaching Carl exactly the wrong things too.

Completely agree.

[Jim Ohara]

Finally saw the episode. Thought it was great, but am bummed about Shane dying. He was such a good character and actor. I love how complicated they made all the characters, and how hopeless the show is.

Nice that they now know what's in store for them when they die. They really are the Walking Dead.

[Chris D]

They really are the Walking Dead.

I hope they don't actually utter that in the show. Always found it kind of goofy when Rick screams it in the comic. Just too on the nose.

[jleal]

Nice interview with Jon Bernthal here...http://insidetv.ew.c...g-dead-shocker/

Seems like he really dug the material and had a legitimate bro-mance with Andrew Lincoln.

[Lucian Von Dooom]

I really wasn't expecting Shane to die so soon. I was kind of surprised by that.

I sure hope they leave the farm soon. I need more action.

[Paul F]

I really wasn't expecting Shane to die so soon. I was kind of surprised by that.

I sure hope they leave the farm soon. I need more action.

I'd be very surprised if the farm survives the finale this week.

[Chris D]

What I don't understand is why they never tried to build a nice sturdy fence around the farm. I know supplies are dangerous to come by, and I suppose they could be afraid that a fence could attract unwanted attention. But building a solid perimiter would be one of my first priorities in a situation like this.

[Ogul]

I would build a trench. With spikes. And bells.