199 replies to this topic

[Scott Wilkinson]

I'd kinda suspected that that was the actor who asked to be released when Darabont was sacked, but the other actor who's already got work lined up confused the issue slightly . . .

[Rory Abel]

I'd kinda suspected that that was the actor who asked to be released when Darabont was sacked, but the other actor who's already got work lined up confused the issue slightly . . .

Yeah he was the one everybody initially assumed.

[Jason Hendriks]

Yeah he was the one everybody initially assumed.

Yeah, I remember that Jeff DeMunn was the actor who everyone figured quit/was fired over the Darabont situation when that rumor came out. Then another name started popping up...

[Christian U]

It's amazing the wide spectrum of ability that these writers show from week to week. Last week, great episode. This week, it's like middle school kids were hired to write the episode.

Seriously. Carl just wandering into the woods by himself? Then trying to use the gun only AFTER walking right up to it? Really? Are the writers trying to make us believe Carl is mentally handicapped?

Then, what is 10x worse, the writers want us to believe that possibly the wisest person in the group, in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, decides to go wandering away from saftey BY HIMSELF?!!?!. A guy who should know better a thousand times over?????

The whole episode was contrived. Stupid, out of character crap written just for filler. A whole episode wasted, and on top of that, we lost Dale in a meaningless event that had no purpose.

The only good part of the episode was the scene between Herschel and Glenn. Other than that, pointless episode.

Hm. While it could have been handled better, I think it's unfair to say it's all been written for filler. The conflict of the episode was the question whether to kill that kid or not, and that conflict developed between Dale and the rest of the group. Everything that happened with Carl was to show how much the boy is in danger of losing his humanity - refusing to believe in heaven, playing with that walker, wanting to watch the execution... and now it's basically his fault that Dale is dead, because that walker only got free because of him. That's setting up a lot of conflict potential for further episodes, where parenting issues are concerned. And of course that made Rick's decision, the lines are drawn now between wanting just to survive and wanting to keep values alive for Carl. Which again puts him at odds with Shane.

I'm not defending the whole people ambling off thing; Carl should never have been let walk away on his own, and Dale... well, at least he was emotionally distressed to breaking point.

[GordonM]

I wasn't shocked by Dale's death but rather was gripped by the possibility that Carl was going to put a bullet in the captive's head. He may be Rick's son but he's acting more like a child of Shane right now.

[Ogul]

I wasn't shocked by Dale's death but rather was gripped by the possibility that Carl was going to put a bullet in the captive's head. He may be Rick's son but he's acting more like a child of Shane right now.

That may be part of the message too, that Shane's reactions are the childish reactions to the situation, the bestial reactions.

[Christian U]

I see it more like this is what had to happen to Carl; he's growing up in this world. It won't be long until he's forgotten things ever were different. Shane may be trying to adapt to how things, to live purely according to survival of the fittest; to Carl it'll come naturally.

Carl's treatment in the book has been similar.

[Carlos Mancilla II]

I do think they are rushing Carl's development but Carl does eventually become ruthless in the comic, that's part of the reason why Carl becomes so badass.. remember in the comic, he actually kills people

It's sad to see Dale go... I really wanted his character to develop more, fans of the show didn't get as attached to him as the fans of the comic have been able to.. When Dale died in the comics, it really was a sad moment.. He even got to die honorably, giving everyone individually his final word.. When he died in the show, it's just like.. Damn, that sucks... In the comic, I was like Nooooo Dale, please don't go!

Edited by Carlos Mancilla II, 06 March 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Christian U]

I do think they are rushing Carl's development but Carl does eventually become ruthless in the comic, that's part of the reason why Carl becomes so badass.. remember in the comic, he actually kills people

I did wonder if they would go there already, with Carl sneaking into the barn and just shooting the guy.

It's sad to see Dale go... I really wanted his character to develop more, fans of the show didn't get as attached to him as the fans of the comic have been able to.. When Dale died in the comics, it really was a sad moment.. He even got to die honorably, giving everyone individually his final word.. When he died in the show, it's just like.. Damn, that sucks... In the comic, I was like Nooooo Dale, please don't go!

He's been underused for all this season (and most of the last one, to be honest), so I don't feel particularly sad he's gone. Shame they didn't find a better way to use the character, but with the dynamics of the show being somewhat different from that of the book, I suppose he just didn't fit as well.

[Scott Wilkinson]

I was surprised too see in the preview for next week . . . T-Dog . . . I thought he'd died . . .or got bored . . . or wandered away . . . or was hiding under a pile of coats until the Zombie infestation was over . . .

Edited by Scott Wilkinson, 06 March 2012 - 05:02 PM.

[SamMM]

I did wonder if they would go there already, with Carl sneaking into the barn and just shooting the guy.



He's been underused for all this season (and most of the last one, to be honest), so I don't feel particularly sad he's gone. Shame they didn't find a better way to use the character, but with the dynamics of the show being somewhat different from that of the book, I suppose he just didn't fit as well.

I did wonder if they would go there already, with Carl sneaking into the barn and just shooting the guy.

Me too, but while this is cable TV, it's still mainstream US telly, and I don't know if they'd sign off on a pre-adolescent kid murdering someone.

I do like the idea that Carl's reaction is juvenile and base, and that's what Shane is. I think the show was quite brave to put everyone (bar Andrea at the end) in opposition to Dale, even though he was the one espousing 'our' values -- rule of law, innocent until proven guilty, no capital punishment (or at least it being the very last resort) etc.

He's been underused for all this season (and most of the last one, to be honest), so I don't feel particularly sad he's gone. Shame they didn't find a better way to use the character, but with the dynamics of the show being somewhat different from that of the book, I suppose he just didn't fit as well.

I may be in the minority, but I really liked Dale on the show. I thought he was, as I said above, the voice of reason, the voice humanity. I get why that may seem out of touch with the situation they're facing, but as he constantly pointed out, is even the end of world enough cause to abandon one's principles? I thought it was a fascinating conflict, and I'm sad he's gone.

That said, they needed to kill someone, and one of the main cast, just to keep things edgy, imo; so in that sense I'm weirdly glad he was killed.

Oh, and about the walking around thing: I know it's easy for viewers to judge, but I can also see the argument that for the characters this is the normal world, and they simply don't have the energy/strength to be uber-vigilant the whole time. And the farm is about as safe a place as they've had. Add it all up and I think it's not ridiculous that Carl and Dale were walking about in potentially unsafe areas.

[Christian U]

I may be in the minority, but I really liked Dale on the show. I thought he was, as I said above, the voice of reason, the voice humanity. I get why that may seem out of touch with the situation they're facing, but as he constantly pointed out, is even the end of world enough cause to abandon one's principles? I thought it was a fascinating conflict, and I'm sad he's gone.

Yeah, I agree that that's a fascinating conflict. It's just that Dale didn't seem to have a lot to do but to espouse it, which made him a bit annoying as a character. In the books, he had more facets; in the show he wasn't allowed a lot of development.

[Jim Ohara]

Randall (the guy in the barn) feels very like Sophia - a dangling plot point that gets dragged on for weeks that leads to a shocking conclusion at the end of the season. It seems likely they'll have to run from the farm soon as Randall's friends figure out where he is. I still liked the episode, I found it to be incredibly intense and well acted, even if the ending seemed obvious (could we really get behind a cast who executed someone?).

I kinda wish is was Shane who put the bullet in Dale's brain. I think that would have been much creepier and darker.

[Chris D]

Yeah, I agree that that's a fascinating conflict. It's just that Dale didn't seem to have a lot to do but to espouse it, which made him a bit annoying as a character. In the books, he had more facets; in the show he wasn't allowed a lot of development.

That's how I felt about him too. It seemed that every time he opened his mouth is was some morality speech. He was a very one dimensional character in the show so I won't miss him. Honestly, the show hasn't done a great job in balancing the ensemble this season so I'd be fine if the season ended with a bloodbath.

[Rory Abel]

Randall (the guy in the barn) feels very like Sophia - a dangling plot point that gets dragged on for weeks that leads to a shocking conclusion at the end of the season. It seems likely they'll have to run from the farm soon as Randall's friends figure out where he is. I still liked the episode, I found it to be incredibly intense and well acted, even if the ending seemed obvious (could we really get behind a cast who executed someone?).

I kinda wish is was Shane who put the bullet in Dale's brain. I think that would have been much creepier and darker.

As I said, I'm willing to bet that Randall's people are going to turn out to be from Woodbury and the Governor.

[Scott Wilkinson]

Randall (the guy in the barn) feels very like Sophia - a dangling plot point that gets dragged on for weeks that leads to a shocking conclusion at the end of the season. It seems likely they'll have to run from the farm soon as Randall's friends figure out where he is. I still liked the episode, I found it to be incredibly intense and well acted, even if the ending seemed obvious (could we really get behind a cast who executed someone?).

I kinda wish is was Shane who put the bullet in Dale's brain. I think that would have been much creepier and darker.

Are they even looking for him?, as far as they're concerned they left him for dead impaled on a fence being overrun by lurchers (was that what they called them?) . . . although that doesn't mean they won't still find their way to the farm.

[Carlos Mancilla II]

I may be in the minority, but I really liked Dale on the show. I thought he was, as I said above, the voice of reason, the voice humanity. I get why that may seem out of touch with the situation they're facing, but as he constantly pointed out, is even the end of world enough cause to abandon one's principles? I thought it was a fascinating conflict, and I'm sad he's gone.

That said, they needed to kill someone, and one of the main cast, just to keep things edgy, imo; so in that sense I'm weirdly glad he was killed.

Oh I liked Dale on the show.. I just felt that his character wasn't developed enough for people to truly feel the impact of his passing

[Rory Abel]

Plus his death as a moment didn't really work. He's standing in an quiet, empty field in the middle of the night and doesn't hear it coming up behind him? It's an emaciated husk and he can't manage to push it away? None of it really made sense. I have no problem with Dale dying, I just wish they did it better. And Jim is 100% right, it should have been Shane, or at the very least Andrea, who shot him at the end.

[alan martin]

I agree with whoever said the writing is very hit or miss. There's almost never any subtext to what people are saying, and they do make very short-term kind of dumb decisions a lot of the time.

I do wonder, in terms of a longer term plan, as they voted to kil Randall, would the plan now be to kill anyone who happens to come across the farm from here on unless they magically happened to know them from the past? (And there didn't seem any follow up on the fact that Randall said he had known Maggie.)

Killing off Dale was pretty shocking, and I was a little moved as he's one of the more likable members of the cast (even if yes, a little preachy and one note at times.) And it being indirectly little Carl's fault was a nice twist for sure.

[Chris D]

And Jim is 100% right, it should have been Shane, or at the very least Andrea, who shot him at the end.

I really should have been. I was actually sure it was going to be one of them. Having it be Daryl didn't make much sense.

There were plenty of problems with the episode. But really the whole Randal story has been pretty forced. I get what they're trying to do/convey, but it mostly hasn't made much sense. What ever made them think the kid would want to run back to the people who left him to die vs. the people who saved his life is beyond me. I mean, until they started torturing him when he probably would have just told them what they wanted to know purely out of gratitude for helping him.

Anyway, I think the writers of the show often try too hard to force drama without really thinking it through. I think the situation alone creates plenty of drama. And the stuff between Rick and Shane works without feeling forced. It's a natural progression of their characters.