199 replies to this topic

[Rory Abel]

Shane and Andrea got it on in the car after zombie hunting and nearly getting killed earlier his season. Dale's been pining after Andrea since season 1 but she's always rebuffed him. He was ready to die with her, remember?

Oh that's right I did completely forgot about Shane and Andrea in the car. But if she's rebuffed Dale at every turn then the've never had sex.

But as I said before, I think you're confusing drama with melodrama. I think that Walking Dead is a drama that is some times badly written and so slips into melodrama but that doesn't make it a soap opera. Case in point, Shane and Lori would never ever get back together (as they would in a soap opera/melodrama).

[Barry Matthew Ween]

Anyone who doesn't like spoilers, avoid the Blu-Ray advert that AMC put out for Season 2. They screw up bigtime. Wish I could unsee it.

You're not kidding but like the article says, it's not truly that "suprising".

[Carlos Mancilla II]

Shane in the last episode has stated that he wished he could take it all back and regrets it, I don't see Shane as someone who lies, coward at times, sure but not a liar... unless I forgot something, which is very possible... So I see Shane and Lori pretty much on opposite sides, Lori trying to take control and turn things against Shane, while Shane is pretty much now doing what he needs to do to live.. I don't see them hooking up but I'm not going to completely throw out the idea that it could happen

[Christian U]

There's definitely a lot of tension but I'm not seeing any scheming going on. Unless we have different definitions of scheming.

Well, there's Lori pushing Rick to act against Shane, there's Dale trying to turn people against Shane individually, Maggie's tried to push Glenn into a leadership position in the group (although that was only in one conversation, at this point), Shane's been fighting Rick's leadership since day one, you could see Rick's mind working whenever Hershel wanted to make them leave. It's not the soap-opera brand of scheming, but there's a lot of power struggles and people trying to gain the advantage.

[Rory Abel]

Well, there's Lori pushing Rick to act against Shane, there's Dale trying to turn people against Shane individually, Maggie's tried to push Glenn into a leadership position in the group (although that was only in one conversation, at this point), Shane's been fighting Rick's leadership since day one, you could see Rick's mind working whenever Hershel wanted to make them leave. It's not the soap-opera brand of scheming, but there's a lot of power struggles and people trying to gain the advantage.

But that was my point, none of those people are scheming. They were all upfront and honest about their thoughts and feelings. Shane thinks he would be the better leader and keeps saying so. Dale thinks shane is dangerous and so keeps telling people so. There are no machinations, subterfuge or manipulation, just people being honest about what they believe. And really since we were talking about whether or not the show is a soap opera to say that the scheming isn't soap opera brand is the point.

Edited by Rory Abel, 03 March 2012 - 08:27 PM.

[Christian U]

Well, honest to some people. But like I said, I agree that it isn't soap opera scheming. Just, you know, some scheming going on. I don't think it's a soap opera at all.

[Chris D]

I don't see Shane as someone who lies, coward at times, sure but not a liar.

Well, he lied about Rick being dead (though I'm sure he thought he was as good as dead, at the very least) and he lied to everyone about what happened at that school with what's-his-name. And to Lori about Rick being back at the farm after she had her car crash (which he wasn't wrong to do, mind you). He just tends to cop to his lies once they get figured out, and justifies them fairly well.

[Jim Ohara]

The interesting dynamic between Rick and Shane is that Shane is probably right in what he says and does, and the decisions he makes. He's the guy for this new world. He does what's required to survive, no matter what the cost to his soul. Rick seems to want to keep a grasp on the old way of living (like rescuing the kid who was impaled on the spike) but you can't help but feel Rick's way is only going to get them all killed.

[Carlos Mancilla II]

Well, he lied about Rick being dead (though I'm sure he thought he was as good as dead, at the very least) and he lied to everyone about what happened at that school with what's-his-name. And to Lori about Rick being back at the farm after she had her car crash (which he wasn't wrong to do, mind you). He just tends to cop to his lies once they get figured out, and justifies them fairly well.

And he lied to Lori.. it's amazing I forgot many of those things haha

[Chris D]

The interesting dynamic between Rick and Shane is that Shane is probably right in what he says and does, and the decisions he makes. He's the guy for this new world. He does what's required to survive, no matter what the cost to his soul. Rick seems to want to keep a grasp on the old way of living (like rescuing the kid who was impaled on the spike) but you can't help but feel Rick's way is only going to get them all killed.

And that, of course, is a huge theme for the whole series. What's the point of surviving if you have to sacrifice your humanity to do so?

Edited by Chris D, 03 March 2012 - 09:30 PM.

[Christian U]

Thus, the ambivalence of the title.

[Tonycal]

And that, of course, is a huge theme for the whole series. What's the point of surviving if you have to sacrifice your humanity to do so?

Yeah I was going to say that. The whole series basically deals with humanity the whole time. Should you become this way or that way?! That is the interesting dynamic that made me love the comic.

[Christian U]

That's where the books is really in Romero's tradition. Those films were always about the people, not about the zombies.

[Rory Abel]

That's where the books is really in Romero's tradition. Those films were always about the people, not about the zombies.

Romero has also said that the zombies always represented group think/herd mentality to him, especially in Night.

[Jim Ohara]

I don't see that theme in Walking Dead though. The zombies aren't really a horde, they're more monsters (like wolves) than mindless idiots who are easily fooled. I much prefer the Walking Dead kind of zombie - what if man were as savage and cruel and relentless as a beast?

[Rory Abel]

I don't see that theme in Walking Dead though. The zombies aren't really a horde, they're more monsters (like wolves) than mindless idiots who are easily fooled. I much prefer the Walking Dead kind of zombie - what if man were as savage and cruel and relentless as a beast?

Oh I wasn't saying that it carried over into Walking Dead, just that for Romero everything, even the zombies, were ultimately about people. The inspiration for Land of the Dead was that the zombies represented the homeless, such a part of everything day life that they could be ignored. For Romero, it was also about subtext, as hamfisted or thuddingly surface level as it some times was. Walking Dead doesn't really have that kind of subtext. That's not even meant as a criticism or anything since honestly I don't know if it would even work in a long-form, like comics or TV, as it does in a film.

[Ogul]

The interesting dynamic between Rick and Shane is that Shane is probably right in what he says and does, and the decisions he makes. He's the guy for this new world. He does what's required to survive, no matter what the cost to his soul. Rick seems to want to keep a grasp on the old way of living (like rescuing the kid who was impaled on the spike) but you can't help but feel Rick's way is only going to get them all killed.

No, Rick is the middle ground, the battlefield. Shane is the little devil, always urging pragmatic and easy solutions to every problem, Dale is the little angel, always arguing for the "right" choice, even when it's the hardest (and maybe stupid). Rick is the one that has to make the correct choice, the one that may not be the "paragon" choice, but at least considers it. and isn't evil unless it's actually a necessary evil, rather than merely a convenient one. If they let Shane rule, they'd be monsters, if they let Dale rule, they'd all be dead, that's why Rick needs to be in charge.

[Jason Hendriks]

Well, that was unexpected...

[Todd Gambrel]

It's amazing the wide spectrum of ability that these writers show from week to week. Last week, great episode. This week, it's like middle school kids were hired to write the episode.

Seriously. Carl just wandering into the woods by himself? Then trying to use the gun only AFTER walking right up to it? Really? Are the writers trying to make us believe Carl is mentally handicapped?

Then, what is 10x worse, the writers want us to believe that possibly the wisest person in the group, in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, decides to go wandering away from saftey BY HIMSELF?!!?!. A guy who should know better a thousand times over?????

The whole episode was contrived. Stupid, out of character crap written just for filler. A whole episode wasted, and on top of that, we lost Dale in a meaningless event that had no purpose.

The only good part of the episode was the scene between Herschel and Glenn. Other than that, pointless episode.

Edited by Todd Gambrel, 05 March 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[Ogul]

Seriously. Carl just wandering into the woods by himself? Then trying to use the gun only AFTER walking right up to it? Really? Are the writers trying to make us believe Carl is mentally handicapped?

You didn't notice that in the previous scene in the shed? They were showing that he's got a bit of a deathwish, he's pushing limits, pushing himself too far. I think it made sense for the character, but he's still an idiot.