127 replies to this topic

[Will Carper]

I should've added a smiley because I did chuckle.

[Mike]

I always liked the ideas underlying Foundation more than the stories Asimov told with them.

[David Meadows]

Folks forget just how awesome the Phantom Menace trailer was. It had people camped outside cinemas for weeks. Folks flew to America just to see the movie. I don't think there's ever been a movie like it since.

The first time I saw that trailer at the cinema, I had tears in my eyes by the time the first three notes of music had finished, before anything was actually shown on screen. No exaggeration. The original Star Wars (released when I was 11) meant that much to me.

There was no way the actual film could match that level of expectation. It was doomed to fail.

Still, no one has come up with something as inventive technically in a long time. I remember seeing it (the first film) on the first run in the Odeon in Birmingham, and it totally blew my mind. Many would argue that I have never recovered, but there you are.

By amazing coincidence, that's where I saw the first Star Wars film

Whose going to pay money to sit down and watch something with the budget of 'Avatar' that doesn't have the raw emotion of 'Avatar'?

Raw emotion? I enjoyed Avatar, but it was a very sterile sort of enjoyment, I wasn't very emotionally engaged by it.

[Rory Abel]

Not unexpectedly Red Tails is getting awful reviews with much of the blame being laid directly at Lucas' feet. Most damning is that he was clearly more interested in the air battles than character, dialogue or emotion (sound familiar?).

[Stephen Galvin]

Hi Mr Meadows, Fellow Brummie. I haven't figured out how to include sections of peoples previous posts, so I'll just say that the first film was also a major event to me at that age. Magical really. I liked all the prequel installments, but only liked.

[Robert B]

Another big problem is that we were our 20s and 30s when the prequels came out, and they're movies for children. Kids love the prequels and the Clone Wars and all that. One of my friends' kids even dressed as General Grievous for Halloween last year.

[steveuk]

Raw emotion? I enjoyed Avatar, but it was a very sterile sort of enjoyment, I wasn't very emotionally engaged by it.

I don't doubt you, but given the film's success I'd say you're in a minority there. 'Avatar' was built on and around the shameless manipulation of raw emotion.

Slow news day.

Fan backlash at yet another Star Wars cash-in
Yodafone' promo adds to fans misery

‘Star Wars’ fans are outraged once again this week after iconic character Yoda was spotted selling mobile phones in the latest Vodafone advert.

Promoting their company’s new ‘Red Box’ concept, the Jedi Master is seen sat in a swanky sushi restaurant attempting to help a mobile phone user transfer his contacts from his old phone to his new device.

Yoda begins to use the Jedi force in an attempt to merge the data between the phones only for the ungrateful punter to refuse his help, as Vodafone has already done it for him.

http://uk.movies.yah...rs-cash-in.html

[Christian U]

That's kind of my point - it's the cast that makes these things work, much more than the director, and the prequel cast just didn't get into the characters. It's true that they maybe suffered from not having full sets or a theater like environment around them, but guys in animation still manage to turn in great performances. if you can't act with a tennis ball on an empty stage you're wanting as an actor. Rather I think everyone involved just saw it as a payday, and didn't bother to bring their A game.

If you really think that any of those people went into working in a Star Wars film and were that cynical about it - instead of fan-boyish and excited - I think you are very wrong indeed. Especially when you're a young guy like Hayden Christiansen in your first leading role; the idea that he didn't want to bring his A-Game is a bit ridiculous. And when you have so many actors who are fine with every other movie they're in and are clearly floundering so badly in these, well, Lucas is the common factor, isn't it? And while you can blame the actors all, you want: The director is the one who is either happy with the performances or isn't. If the performances are shit, you do the scenes again until they get it right. And if they can't do that, well, maybe you have to switch them out against somebody else (like Jackson did with Aragorn). The only explanation for these performances in a high-budget movie is that this is what the director wanted or he had to be satisfied with it because he didn't understand how to get better performances from the actors.

[David Meadows]

I don't doubt you, but given the film's success I'd say you're in a minority there. 'Avatar' was built on and around the shameless manipulation of raw emotion.

I thought its success was built on the new 3D technology. It didn't seem to deliberately play on emotions the way a lot of films do. But I guess that's just me not appreciating the characters or the trees or the whatever it was that was supposed to make you feel sad...

Normally I'm very susceptible to emotional manipulation in films. I cried at Entangled fergodssake

Edited by David Meadows, 20 January 2012 - 07:26 PM.

[steveuk]

I thought its success was built on the new 3D technology. It didn't seem to deliberately play on emotions the way a lot of films do. But I guess that's just me not appreciating the characters or the trees or the whatever it was that was supposed to make you feel sad...

Normally I'm very susceptible to emotional manipulation in films. I cried at Entangled fergodssake

Spectacle, certainly, but awe and the appreciation of spectacle is an emotional response. Overwhelmingly the film was built and driven by a range of emotions including sympathy, outrage, triumph and love;



Emotion, when it works, is what drives hits more than anything else.

[Mark Peyton]

Spectacle, certainly, but awe and the appreciation of spectacle is an emotional response. Overwhelmingly the film was built and driven by a range of emotions including sympathy, outrage, triumph and love;



Emotion, when it works, is what drives hits more than anything else.

I'm even less likely to rewatch Avatar than Episode 1.

[Stephen Galvin]

I have been thinking about this for two days on and off. Yes, I am slow. But finally the inner fanboy has rebelled.
I can understand Lucas' point of view, I have decided.
He is way more talented than me, I think. He created some of the greatest screen icons of the modern era. He never lost the studios money, and I can't think of another space saga that I enjoyed as much with the possible exception of the new Star Trek. (Can't stand the Picard Series though. Give me Jim Kirk any day.)
I can understand legitimate criticism, but even the great art critic Brian Sewell admits he is a crap painter.
So, I hope Lucas is not serious, gets a grip of himself, and remembers that a critic is just some guy giving an opinion on something he himself cannot hope to create. Bring on the next three installments, please. Without Hayden C, or Jar Jar, or Ewoks, or any of that childish shite. And more of the sexy aliens dancing around before they get eaten too, if possible.

(This was all prompted by my mate saying today, 'could you have got anymore paint on yourself?' when I was doing him a favour painting up a a large prototype. My reply was,'If you had picked up a F***ing paintbrush yourself, you might have been covered in paint too, you f......etc...)

[jamon g]

actually all three prequels can be awesome movies with a bit of editing. I would say 90% of the films are amazing, but it's the 10% slapstick or bad acting that spoils it. Basically starting with phantom I you can just edit out the midiclorians bit, cut out jar jar scenes almost in entirety, and cut out any bits where anakin 'accidentally' saves the day, basically cut out the dialogue of 'uh oh, oops, whoopsie, oh no' etc. and you have a cool kid blowing crap up.
attack of the clones is awesome, you just need to cut out some of the bad acting of anakin, cutting short all of the love scenes and his dodgy angst dialogue. They can just have the marriage scene at the end really, and maybe some snippets of courting like with han and leia. also the young bobba fett is a really bad actor, so cutting out his dodgy evil laugh etc would make those scenes heaps better.
revenge of the sith, well basically get rid of all anakin's whining, cut down a little on the yoda gymnastics (i don't mind a bit, but lets not go crazy) and of course edit out the 'nooooo' of vader at the end and it's cool.
It's just those stupid additions which suck, and if they had a good editor they could have been cut out and the films would be legendary.

[Chris D]

It's just those stupid additions which suck, and if they had a good editor they could have been cut out and the films would be legendary.

Can't say I agree. I think the movies are a mess. They're completely devoid of charm, poorly written, and just plain dull. I think you could take some of the basic story ideas and make really cool movies out of them, but there's very little that I enjoyed in the prequels.

[Will Carper]

I think you could take some of the basic story ideas and make really cool movies out of them, but there's very little that I enjoyed in the prequels.

The basic over-arching plot is brilliant. Palpatine's manipulations are mostly really clever.

[Christian U]

Can't say I agree. I think the movies are a mess. They're completely devoid of charm, poorly written, and just plain dull. I think you could take some of the basic story ideas and make really cool movies out of them, but there's very little that I enjoyed in the prequels.

Couldn't agree more. Blowing shit up and cool visuals do nothing without a good story, and those movies don't have that.


That's where Avatar is a good example, it's this kind of movie done right, and yes, it is shamelessly emotionally exploitative. James Cameron isn't exactly subtle when it comes to that, but he certainly makes it work.

That

[jamon g]

Couldn't agree more. Blowing shit up and cool visuals do nothing without a good story, and those movies don't have that.


That's where Avatar is a good example, it's this kind of movie done right, and yes, it is shamelessly emotionally exploitative. James Cameron isn't exactly subtle when it comes to that, but he certainly makes it work.

That

bah, avatar was just cool visuals and blowing stuff up - the story was totally generic and borrowed/stolen from disney's atlantis. at least the prequels actually had an original story, and like avatar it was breaking ground in visuals. you could use the exact same argument for the original trilogy, bad acting, blowing stuff up and not much plot, actually the prequels had a much more developed story than the original trilogy.
The story to avatar was pretty silly, i just kept waiting for them to nuke them or something, i hate the whole 'noble savage' routine hollywood plays with american indian stereotypes.

After traveling through a network of caves and a dormant volcano the team reaches Atlantis. Much to their surprise, they find the ancient city still populated. They are greeted by Kida—who, despite her age, resembles a young woman—and discover the Atlantean language is the basis of many existing languages (which allows the Atlanteans to understand English). The team is brought before Kida's father, the King of Atlantis (Leonard Nimoy). He wants the explorers to leave immediately, certain their arrival bodes ill for his people, but finally allows them to stay one night. Milo sees that Atlantis has fallen into ruin since its disappearance, and Kida enlists his aid in deciphering the Atlantean written language which has been forgotten by the natives. Through translating underwater murals, Milo helps Kida uncover the nature of the Heart of Atlantis: it supplies the Atlanteans with power and longevity through the crystals worn around their necks. He is surprised this is not mentioned in the Journal, but realizes a page is missing.
Returning with Kida, Milo discovers Rourke has the missing page. Rourke and the crew betray Milo, intending to bring the crystal to the surface and sell it. Rourke mortally wounds the King while trying to extract information about the crystal's location, but finds it for himself hidden beneath the throne room. The crystal detects a threat and merges with Kida (as it did with her mother). Rourke and the mercenaries lock Kida in a crate and prepare to leave the city, knowing that when the crystal is gone the Atlanteans will die. Milo berates his friends for betraying their consciences and ultimately convinces them to leave Rourke and remain behind. The King explains to Milo that the crystal has developed a consciousness; it will find a royal host when Atlantis is in danger and create an energy shield around it. As he dies he gives his crystal to Milo, telling him to save Atlantis and Kida. Encouraged by Sweet, Milo rallies the crew and the Atlanteans to stop Rourke.
In a battle inside the dormant volcano, Helga and the other mercenaries are killed, including Rourke who is destroyed when Milo slashes his arm with a crystal shard. As Milo and the others fly the crystal back to the city, the volcano erupts. With lava flowing towards the city, Kida (in her crystal form) rises into the air and creates a protective shield. The lava breaks away harmlessly, showing a restored Atlantis, and the crystal returns Kida to Milo. The surviving crew goes back to the surface and promises Whitmore they will keep the discovery of Atlantis a secret. Milo, in love with Kida, stays behind to help her rebuild the lost empire.

[Christian U]

Like I said, the story is neither original nor subtle, and I can understand anyone who hates it, but it does work very well. Same goes for Titanic and many other Cameron movies. He goes by the book in constructing his scripts, and it's very effective.

And no, the Atlantis thing doesn't make a lot of sense. Avatar is simply a very generic story indeed that has been told in more or less this form very often.

With the prequels, it's not about "how much" plot there is, but whether that plot works. Which it doesn't. Like I said, look at Episode I. One example for a very fundamental mistake: Anakin can already do everything, he is a genius miracle kid. There's no room for the hero to grow (in contrast to Luke).

Edited by Christian U, 21 January 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[craggy]

Like I said, the story is neither original nor subtle, and I can understand anyone who hates it, but it does work very well. Same goes for Titanic and many other Cameron movies. He goes by the book in constructing his scripts, and it's very effective.

he totally should have been more original with Titanic. Like Billy Zane was really some dark magician who summonded the iceberg or something.

[Will Carper]

Craggy, get your hands on the print of 3D rerelease and add that! Like, now. How's your Billy Zane impression?