163 replies to this topic

[Christian U]

What's the point of the internet without pointless arguments?

Pictures of cats, I am told.

[Eduardo]

http://www.independe...rk-6292682.html

Legal thriller looms as Sherlock takes his caseload to New York

It's a fresh take on Sherlock Holmes which will transplant the sleuth to a modern-day setting. But it doesn't take Baker Street's finest to deduce the source material for a major new drama announced by American network CBS.

The producers of the BBC's acclaimed Sherlock series, starring Benedict Cumberbatch, are prepared to take legal action against the US network over a rival Holmes series which appears to tread on familiar ground.

The BBC version is already a cult hit in America, where it is screened on the PBS network. The show's contemporary reinvention of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's stories, allied to slick production values, impressed network executives at CBS – so when an offer to remake the BBC's Sherlock for US viewers came to nothing, they decided to go ahead and make their own.

In a move which has caused concern at Hartswood Films, the BBC show's producers, CBS has commissioned Elementary, described as a new Sherlock Holmes adaptation set in modern-day New York.

Sue Vertue, Sherlock Executive Producer at Hartswood Films, said: "We understand that CBS are doing their own version of an updated Sherlock Holmes. It's interesting, as they approached us a while back about remaking our show. At the time, they made great assurances about their integrity, so we have to assume that their modernised Sherlock Holmes doesn't resemble ours in any way, as that would be extremely worrying." She added: "We are very proud of our show and like any proud parent, will protect the interest and wellbeing of our offspring."

Conan Doyle's creation has been subject to numerous screen incarnations, including Guy Ritchie's all-action Hollywood version. Holmes' sleuthing skills and character quirks also inspired House, Hugh Laurie's medical detective.

But it is Elementary's relocation of the character to a modern setting which may closely impinge on the BBC series, which has made laptops and text messaging an important element of its plots.

Margaret Tofalides, a copyright specialist at law firm Manches, said: "The concept of a new Sherlock Holmes is unprotectable. But if the unusual elements of the BBC series – the modern settings, characters, clothes, plots and distinctive visual style – were closely reproduced in the CBS version, that could form the basis of a potential copyright claim."

An American Sherlock could threaten the revenues returned to BBC Worldwide from the Cumberbatch show. The episodes have found an international audience through DVD sales and iTunes downloads.

[David Chapman]

I do wish the writers made it so that only some of Holmes' cases were suspected as fakes. All of them just makes no sense at all.

All of them being fake actually makes a negative amount of sense. To fake the Baskerville case would have required him to start work 20 years ago and set up a classified project into the bargain. If that one was fake, then Sherlock would have to work for the government - or at worst, be Mycroft's catspaw - and revealing the fraud would be an attack on national security.

[steveuk]

The characters in the show are all reacting to a rapidly changing set of events. No-one has the time to sit down and make a list of everything that Sherlock's been involved with at that time.

It's the kind of thing that would take place over the next few days, weeks and months if it was happening for real.

[David Chapman]

The characters in the show are all reacting to a rapidly changing set of events. No-one has the time to sit down and make a list of everything that Sherlock's been involved with at that time.

They don't have to. Watson has already done it for them, in his blog.

[Will Carper]

Also, I think it's likely that upon hearing the allegation that Holmes is a fraud, one would instantly think of cases in which that couldn't be true, no matter how much they want it to be. Particularly because they've witnessed him at work, and for so long have assumed him to be accurate. I don't think it's plausible that every cop would reverse that thinking, or for Moriarty to assume they would. Not every cop who's worked a case with Holmes can be that petty--we already know Lestrade isn't.

[steveuk]

Just out of interest, where did anyone get the idea that every cop thought Sherlock had faked every case he worked on?

Because I didn't get that from the episode at all. I got that there was general resentment and that the lady cop and the forensic guy in particular had a grudge against him.

[James Dodsworth]

Paul Cornell has a go at a solution - http://www.paulcorne...k-solution.html

And that bastion of journalism, The Mail On Sunday has called ins ome "experts" to deduce the ending - http://www.dailymail...ked-death-.html

[steveuk]

Paul Cornell has a go at a solution - http://www.paulcorne...k-solution.html

And that bastion of journalism, The Mail On Sunday has called ins ome "experts" to deduce the ending - http://www.dailymail...ked-death-.html

I liked his 'Warhorse' review.

Not so keen on his Sherlock solution though. I'm not saying he's wrong, but it's not a very convincing plan if it turns out to be accurate.

Actually I will say that I think he's wrong about the cyclist, even though I agree with his logic.

[Eduardo]

Heh, maybe Moffat is refering to Sherlock playing with the ball (there is speculation he could have used one under his armpit to do the old "no pulse" trick magicians do).

[steveuk]

Heh, maybe Moffat is refering to Sherlock playing with the ball (there is speculation he could have used one under his armpit to do the old "no pulse" trick magicians do).

Could be.

I'm starting to worry less about the details though, I ended up enjoying the series as much as the previous one so I'm really just hoping it comes back sooner, rather than later.

[Mike]

I'm starting to worry less about the details though, I ended up enjoying the series as much as the previous one so I'm really just hoping it comes back sooner, rather than later.

This post brings a contented smile to my face.

[steveuk]

This post brings a contented smile to my face.

Two out of three, two years running. Not a bad score.

[Eduardo]

Same here.

[Scott Wilkinson]

Could be.

I'm starting to worry less about the details though, I ended up enjoying the series as much as the previous one so I'm really just hoping it comes back sooner, rather than later.

Had you read my post (or the original Guardian interview) Moffat hopes that series 3 will have aired before the end of this year . . .

About the no pulse . . . did Watson actually say he didn't have a pulse? He took the pulse and then the body was rushed away . . . I'm no medicologist, but I'd have thought even still having a pulse certainly wouldn't be a sign that they could have survived that fall.

Edited by Scott Wilkinson, 22 January 2012 - 09:06 PM.

[Mike]

Sue Vertue was quick to respond to Moffatt saying that though, and said it'd be unlikely we'd see series 3 this year.

[steveuk]

Had you read my post (or the original Guardian interview) Moffat hopes that series 3 will have aired before the end of this year . . .

About the no pulse . . . did Watson actually say he didn't have a pulse? He took the pulse and then the body was rushed away . . . I'm no medicologist, but I'd have thought even still having a pulse certainly wouldn't be a sign that they could have survived that fall.

Well no, even if his heart was beating after the fall, he could still be beyond any real medical assistance but...

...it's a TV show.

When a major character, who is a doctor, takes the pulse of another major character, who is lying still on the street after (seemingly?) falling from a great height, then unless the doctor character says, "He's still alive! Help him!" I think we're being lead to believe that no pulse was found and that Watson believes Holmes is dead as a doornail at that point.

[Ogul]

Sue Vertue, Sherlock Executive Producer at Hartswood Films, said: "We understand that CBS are doing their own version of an updated Sherlock Holmes. It's interesting, as they approached us a while back about remaking our show. At the time, they made great assurances about their integrity, so we have to assume that their modernised Sherlock Holmes doesn't resemble ours in any way, as that would be extremely worrying." She added: "We are very proud of our show and like any proud parent, will protect the interest and wellbeing of our offspring."

I don't see how they could do much about this, since Holmes is public domain. They could only make an argument if they used the same cases and told them in a very similar way, rather than taking their own tangent off the source material. Of course, without Moffat I don't expect it to be nearly as good, but at least we'd expect 22 episodes per year. It's like how Dynamite did a John Carter series and then Marvel made a much, much crappier John Carter series.

[steveuk]

The legal expert quoted in the article disagrees with you;

Margaret Tofalides, a copyright specialist at law firm Manches, said: "The concept of a new Sherlock Holmes is unprotectable. But if the unusual elements of the BBC series – the modern settings, characters, clothes, plots and distinctive visual style – were closely reproduced in the CBS version, that could form the basis of a potential copyright claim."

[Ogul]

Margaret Tofalides, a copyright specialist at law firm Manches, said: "The concept of a new Sherlock Holmes is unprotectable. But if the unusual elements of the BBC series – the modern settings, characters, clothes, plots and distinctive visual style – were closely reproduced in the CBS version, that could form the basis of a potential copyright claim."

Yeah, good luck with that.