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#161
garjones

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A bit heavy handed, but the gist of it remains; why was this reported so badly?

NHS hostility is news. Reporters being locked in a room is something that needs more scrutiny too, but the NHS response really needs better coverage.


Yes it is a left leaning website so not the most neutral source but it stuck to the facts most of the time.

It does seem that Cameron's tactic is to try and downplay or plain ignore the hostility, in the news today he's organised a meeting on NHS reform and just invited the groups that already agree with it and left out the likes of the BMA who don't.
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#162
steveuk

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Yes it is a left leaning website so not the most neutral source but it stuck to the facts most of the time.

It does seem that Cameron's tactic is to try and downplay or plain ignore the hostility, in the news today he's organised a meeting on NHS reform and just invited the groups that already agree with it and left out the likes of the BMA who don't.

And I hope this will be commented upon in the news.
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#163
Ben the Obiwomble

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Today has been a spectacular PR car crash of the highest order, how the hell Cameron thought he could get away with it is truly baffling.

I mean when you've got people like Ben Goldacre doing this kind of devastating data visualisation:

Posted Image

(source: http://bengoldacre.p...amerons-emergen)

Which someone else then renders as a Venn Diagram:

http://www.twitpic.com/8llmo7/full

It really is time to throw in the towel and admit you've made a complete balls-up of it all.

What's fascinating to me here is that the last time there was anything comparable was the Poll Tax, that went through against the advice of just about everyone, was a disaster and destroyed Maggie Thatcher completely. Unlike David Cameron, she was on her 3rd term, had been PM for over a decade and had 100+ seat majority. Are we going to see the same thing happen? Cameron rams his bill through, but then, as it quickly becomes the disaster warned against, the country gets immensely pissed off with him and his party.
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#164
Mike

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The mood in the room was not what Cameron and Lansley expected by all accounts.

I'm a member of the RCPCH; our vote on whether to call directly for the Bill to be dropped is still extant, and is due to reports its results tomorrow. (It will surprise few of you, especially if you follow me on Twitter, that I voted for the RCPCH to call for the Bill to be dropped)

I am beginning to believe that the Bill can be arrested in its progress, and that the worst of the wholesale ideological reforms that Cameron and Lansley had hoped to flag wave past as essential economic necessities can be averted. The NHS still needs genuine reform and an open discussion on how we finance an ever-increasing cost, but Cameron and Lansley's plan is not what is needed.
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#165
David Meadows

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And I hope this will be commented upon in the news.


It was commented upon in the Radio 4 news, but oddly enough no government minister was available for comment...

They were also saying on the radio (and I didn't fully understand the situation; maybe Mike can comment) that they were already implementing many of the reforms, before the bill was even passed. Apparently they already have the powers to make sweeping changes without primary legislation.
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#166
Mike

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The simple explanation is 'Never trust a Tory'

"The NHS is safe in our hands"
"We will stop top-down reorganisation of the NHS"

The Government has started making changes to NHS structure on the assumption that the Bill will pass Parliament; they are effectively trying to burn the ground behind them as they move, to give the impression that the Bill cannot be stopped because there is no way to go back, and so the only way is forward on the path that they have set out. (It isn't true, as with so many of the things the Tories peddle about the NHS; there is still time to stop and take stock from the status quo)

Governments have authority to make changes in NHS structure, to a point, without primary legislation, which is what Lansley set in motion 2 years ago. The desire to streamline NHS management and put clinicians in more direct control of how the NHS works is a valid one; changes to effect that could be put in place without primary legislation. Previous Governments have done just that; in fact, a lot of the ground level changes taking place are inherited from the previous administration.

Primary legislation is needed here though because Cameron and Lansley are taking that further, to aim to take advantage of the political and economic environment to force through massive ideological change in the NHS. Their stated rationale for why the Health Bill is needed does not match their actions; if all they are trying to achieve are the reforms they've already put in place, they wouldn't need a Bill. They need a Bill because they are aiming to fundamentally reshape healthcare provision in the English NHS, to open it up to private competition and to do away with many of the fundamental principles the NHS was founded upon.

They are now rewriting the Bill on the run, with hundreds of amendments already hurriedly slapped into place to attempt to quell the rapidly growing unease and concern, which means that if the Bill does pass it will be riddled with loopholes and undefined areas. The Bill has always been about sleight of hand, about trying to push through legislation that looks relatively benign on the surface but underneath which lurks ideologically driven change which will unravel the NHS irrevocably.

Lansley commissioned a study to identify the risks inherent in his proposed reform; such a study is an essential part of any major proposed change. He is refusing to publish that study because it is likely that it highlights the huge risk to the NHS in carrying out these reforms.

All of this is being done at a time when the NHS is having to cope with the biggest financial constraints in its history. The Health Bill amplifies those difficulties and prevents clinicians and managers doing what they can to meet the economic challenges.

All of this is genuine concern. There is a further, unprovable, concern that Cameron and Lansley know that they are setting their new vision of the NHS up to fail; for GPs to fail to meet the challenge of being economists managing services. Were their new NHS to fail, it would allow them to further open up the NHS to private providers.

The NHS of 2012 looks different to the NHS of 1948. The NHS of 2048 will have to look different again to cope with the changes in medicine and society that will continue. Here and now though is where a genuine battle is being fought over what options of form that future NHS will have open to it to take. If Cameron and Lansley succeed now, and an Any Qualified Provider system is allowed to become established, the NHS will fracture, likely beyond the ability of any future Government's ability to reconstitute it.

There is a Number 10 e-petition for publication of the Risk Register here. How useful that will be is questionable; Cameron promised any petition that got over 100000 signatures would get Parliamentary time - the petition calling for the Health Bill to be withdrawn has been signed by over 140000 and it seems to be having negligible effect on Cameron's plans.

There is an Early Day Motion for the same here; you can, if you're so inclined, write to your MP to ask if they have signed it. 38 Degrees is a website that helps make that easier for you.

Opposition to the Tory's Health Bill, and all it represents, has grown to massive proportions amongst those who work in the NHS. It has taken time for healthcare professionals, individually and collectively, to truly get to grips with what the Bill means for the future of the English NHS. As understanding has grown, the major organisations representing doctors, nurses and healthcare professionals in the United Kingdom have joined to say 'NO' to what is being proposed. It's not just them either - the Health Select Committee in Parliament, chaired by a previous Tory Health Secretary, has grave reservations.

This Bill is meant to be about listening to clinicians, giving clinicians the say in how the NHS is managed ... but Cameron and Lansley will not accept an answer they do not want to hear.

The NHS needs reform, across the whole United Kingdom. It needs to adapt to an ageing population, to ever-expanding new treatments, to limited economic resources. Tough decisions about what core services will comprise will have to be made, decisions about how revenue is channelled will need to be addressed. Hospital departments - whole hospitals - will need to close to provide a service that the country to continue to be proud of.

All of this will be tough, but it can be done, and it can be done without sacrificing the fundamental principles of the National Health Service which remains one of the world's most cost-effective and efficient deliverers of high quality medical care. We should remember that that, the NHS' inherent strength, in amongst all of the media-driven stories about failures and inadequacies, is rarely trumpeted. It should be.
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#167
Mike

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And please, if you care even a jot about the NHS, then get angry and make a noise!

Tonight's hypertensive contribution:

Prof John Ashton, county medical officer for Cumbria, received a letter from his PCT last week after he joined 22 other signatories to a letter in a national newspaper criticising Lansley's health and social care bill. The letter read: "You are bound by the NHS code of conduct and as such it is inappropriate for individuals to raise their personal concerns about the proposed government reforms." Ashton will have to "explain and account" for his actions at the hearing.


I have yet to see the Code of Conduct that prevents me from speaking up about something that I think is not right. The first responsibilities of a doctor practising in the United Kingdom are to make the care of their patient their first concern; and to protect and promote the health of their patients and the public, not to the Government of the day.
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#168
Jason Moncrieff

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I do not trust any of these men at all. From what I've been told by relations, it's all about getting big companies involved in the NHS to make loads of money. I'm not for that.
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#169
steveuk

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<SNIP>

There is a Number 10 e-petition for publication of the Risk Register here. How useful that will be is questionable; Cameron promised any petition that got over 100000 signatures would get Parliamentary time - the petition calling for the Health Bill to be withdrawn has been signed by over 140000 and it seems to be having negligible effect on Cameron's plans.

There is an Early Day Motion for the same here; you can, if you're so inclined, write to your MP to ask if they have signed it. 38 Degrees is a website that helps make that easier for you.

<SNIP>

I used the website to email my MP, this was the response I got;

Dear Constituent,

Thank you for contacting me about the Department of Health’s ‘risk register.’

This Government is committed to transparency and is publishing more information than ever before to help patients make the right choices about their care.

That is why the Department has already published all risks connected to the Health and Social Care Bill in the Combined Impact Assessments. This was updated as recently as September 2011 and collectively makes up over 400 pages of detailed analysis.

Risk registers are specific policy tools used across Government that present risks in ‘worst case scenario’ terms. They are used for the management of policy development and implementation across the private and public sectors. The information contained in the risk registers is integral to government policy-making. To release these documents would damage the ability of Ministers to receive accurate advice, mislead the public debate and be detrimental to the public interest.

No Government of any persuasion has routinely made risk registers of this type public. The Department is therefore appealing the decision by the Information Commissioner to publish its risk register.

However, the Department does recognise the public interest in this and I am pleased that, for this reason, the Department has encouraged the Tribunal to schedule the hearing for as early a date as possible, while allowing of course for both sides to make the appropriate preparations. Following this the Tribunal has brought the hearing forward from a date in April to 5 and 6 March.

I hope this information is useful and thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Matthew Offord MP


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#170
Mike

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'No decision about with me without me'

Smoke and mirrors. There are few professionals who understand and are intimately involved with the concepts of risk and relative risk than healthcare professionals. What is in the register that is so damning that the very people charged with implementing reform are considered unable to cope with?
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#171
steveuk

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'No decision about with me without me'

Smoke and mirrors. There are few professionals who understand and are intimately involved with the concepts of risk and relative risk than healthcare professionals. What is in the register that is so damning that the very people charged with implementing reform are considered unable to cope with?

He's a Conservative, so whatever he may (or may not) think personally, I wasn't expecting him to divert from the the course set by Cameron just yet.

The email was obviously a prepared response though, which I took to mean that my email was not the first he'd received on the subject.

Hopefully he's been getting a lot of messages and is feeling some pressure.
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#172
steveuk

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Labour MP Eric Joyce has been suspended from the party following allegations of an assault in a House of Commons bar on Wednesday night.

Mr Joyce remains MP for Falkirk, but cannot take the Labour whip in the Commons until the completion of a police investigation into the affair.

Scotland Yard confirmed that officers detained a man in his 50s after being called to reports of an incident at a bar within the Palace of Westminster at around 10.50pm. He was taken into custody at a central London police station.

A Labour Party spokesman said: "This is an extremely serious incident. We have suspended Eric Joyce pending the results of the police investigation."

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "We were called at approximately 10.50pm last night to reports of a disturbance at a bar within the House of Commons.

"A man aged in his 50s was arrested by officers on suspicion of assault."

Mr Joyce, MP for Falkirk since December 2000, served in the Army Education Corps before pursuing a career in politics.

In 2010 he resigned as shadow Northern Ireland minister after pleading guilty to failing to provide a breath test.

According to reports, Conservative MP Stuart Andrew was head-butted and punched in the incident, which happened in the Strangers Bar, a Commons bar reserved for MPs and their guests.

Scotland Yard confirmed they are still questioning a man over the alleged assault. A spokesman said: "The man remains in custody at a central London police station."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/mp-held-commons-disturbance-012843207.html
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#173
David Meadows

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In unrelated news, the government has reacted to reports that blame cheap alcohol for society's drink-related problems by announcing that "new initiatives" will be announced.



It is unclear whether these "new initiatives" will include assessing why the Houses of Parliament are the only places in the country where people can drink subsidised booze while at work Posted Image
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#174
garjones

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It is unclear whether these "new initiatives" will include assessing why the Houses of Parliament are the only places in the country where people can drink subsidised booze while at work Posted Image


Sadly I think this is a real red herring. The cost of heroin or cocaine has never stopped people getting a habit and behaving badly. In Scotland they've gone further with this but it's been well noted that Buckfast, the alcoholic's drink of choice in Glasgow, is above their minimum price range.

They've placed huge above inflation cost prices on cigarettes for the last 20 years until they've become the most expensive on the planet but there is no significant co-relation between those price rises and any reduction in use. By rights the UK should have the lowest smoking rates but it is far from them.

These are social issue and as with drink driving and smoking and other things where attitudes have changed it is something that needs a gradual shift in how we think. Which isn't easy but can be done.
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#175
Christian U

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In unrelated news, the government has reacted to reports that blame cheap alcohol for society's drink-related problems by announcing that "new initiatives" will be announced.


Alcohol is not cheap in the UK.
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#176
garjones

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Alcohol is not cheap in the UK.


It is in the supermarkets, not in London pubs. It's still nowhere near as cheap as Paris where I bought a litre of pretty decent wine for 1 Euro and they don't have the same social disorder issues. They have other problems but anyone wanting to think adding 20p onto the price of a can of Special Brew is going to transform British society is due for severe disappointment.
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#177
Ben the Obiwomble

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In light of my recent experience I'm now wondering exactly how the various parts of the NHS and social services teams across the country are going to cope as the DWP offloads people who had been receiving DLA and using that to help maintain their health.

I can't help but see this as simply transferring the cost from one govt dept to another with no actual saving being achieved and the potential for loss being increased. Of course, ideology has no need to realistic in how it operates, but the amount of chaos being whipped up by this government heedlessly is worrying.
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#178
Christian U

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It is in the supermarkets, not in London pubs.


No. Nonono. No. No, it's not. I mean, it may be cheaper than in Helsinki. But it's not cheap. Oh no.


Okay, at least not compared to Germany.

Speaking of Germany, personally I think the reason to all those problems is making alcohol really cheap and lowering the legal drinking age to sixteen.

(We do have alcohol-related problems in Germany, but less so than Britain, I think, and both of those should illustrate that this isn't really about bans or making alcohol expensive.)
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#179
garjones

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No. Nonono. No. No, it's not. I mean, it may be cheaper than in Helsinki. But it's not cheap. Oh no.


In my experience it is waaay cheaper than in Scandinavia, although more expensive than France and Slovakia.

I think it's also relative though because of course people aren't wandering into Slovakia and Germany every week and make local comparisons and it has been getting cheaper. When I first started drinking at around 1989 the local tipple in my pub on the way back from 6th form was a pint Brains Bitter at £1.22, when I went to Cardiff two years ago they were selling it for 99p in the Prince of Wales pub. 21 years of inflation and the price went down 23 pence.

As I said though, I don't think it's hugely relevant, I was a student on 1989 pocket money and we still managed to get pissed.

In the Philippines a bottle of San Miguel is 15p.
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#180
Michael Stranger

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Saw something on telly the other night about alcohol and advertising - specifically, that alcohol advertising is banned in France, while flourishes here. I'd be happy to see alcohol advertising banned myself.

Don't know if this has been posted here, but some interesting ideas.
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