199 replies to this topic

[David Chapman]

UNESCO admitted Palestine as a member state today, and Palestine says it now intends to apply for full membership of the WHO.

The US has responded by withdrawing its funding from UNESCO.

I really don't know what I can say about that.

[Christian U]

It opens a whole can of worms, doesn't it? Let's be realistic here, UNESCO membership should be a no-brainer, of course Palestinians deserve help in education and culture and whatnot, but the point here is that it opens the doors to other UN bodies; it's their path to full recognition. And the US has been working very hard to prevent that from happening.

What this shows above all, though, is how fragile our international community is; the US has always had a mentality of These institutions are great as long as they do exactly what we want, and if they don't, they can fuck off. This is another example for that, and it's a test of strength for the global community. But then, that's what the Israel/Palestine situation has always been.


I thought this was interesting (grabbed it off ABC News, I think):

$US 60 million were due to be transferred next month. A law prevents the US giving money to any UN body that admits the Palestinians as members, before a Middle East peace deal is reached.

More explanation from the New York Times:

The Obama administration, which values its membership in Unesco, tried unsuccessfully to keep the vote from taking place, while Irina Bokova, the American-supported director general of the organization, traveled to Washington to meet with Congressional leaders and ask them to alter the law.

Legislation dating from 1990 and 1994 mandates a complete cutoff of American financing to any United Nations agency that accepts the Palestinians as a full member. State Department lawyers see no leeway in the legislation, and no possibility of a waiver.

The American ambassador to the organization, David T. Killion, repeatedly called the vote on Monday “premature” and said the United States would seek other means to support the agency, though he did not offer specifics.

Obviously, the Obama admin didn't really have a choice in how to act in this.


I also didn't realise this:

The United States rejoined the organization in 2003, ending a boycott that began under 1984 over charges that the organization then was corrupt, anti-Israel and anti-Western and wanted to regulate the international news media.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/world/middleeast/unesco-approves-full-membership-for-palestinians.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2


Oh, Americans.

[David Meadows]

“Vögelbar” (F—kable)

It's a curious form of censorship that blanks out naughty English words but doesn't mind their German-speaking readers being exposed to them.

Why not “V__elbar” ?


This sort of thing interests me

[Adam Wednesdays]

Japan wants more of its soccer fans in North Korea.

TOKYO (AP) — Japan wants North Korea to allow more Japanese fans into the country for next month's World Cup qualifier in Pyongyang.

Kyodo news agency reports Monday that Japan Football Association general secretary Kozo Tashima says the number of Japanese that North Korea would allow into the country is "nowhere near acceptable."

Japan faces North Korea in Pyongyang on Nov. 15. It will be the first time Japan has played in North Korea since 1989.

The Japanese government has been advising citizens to refrain from visiting the country since Tokyo imposed economic sanctions following a missile launch by North Korea in 2006.

But Japan Sports Minister Masaharu Nakagawa said last week it would be good if supporters could organize a tour.

and also


Greek Prime Minister shocks Europe by calling for referendum on on the just-passed debt relief plan.

In fact, it was such a surprise move on the PM's part, he didn't even bother to inform his Finance Minister.

Seems like the kind of thing that you'd want your minister in charge of the economy to be aware of.

Edited by Adam Wednesdays, 02 November 2011 - 12:55 AM.

[Ogul]

Greek Prime Minister shocks Europe by calling for referendum on on the just-passed debt relief plan.

Yeash, this is bullshit and is being blamed on a significant stock market dive over here. How much effort would it take to just occupy Greece, put them under martial law or something? They're screwing around too much.

[Arjan Dirkse]

Yeash, this is bullshit and is being blamed on a significant stock market dive over here. How much effort would it take to just occupy Greece, put them under martial law or something? They're screwing around too much.

Ask Turkey...

But seriously, Greece just has to default at this point. Admit they're never going to pay back all the debts, and get help from the IMF in getting out of the swamp.

[Christian U]

It's a curious form of censorship that blanks out naughty English words but doesn't mind their German-speaking readers being exposed to them.

Why not “V__elbar” ?


This sort of thing interests me

It least two reasons I can think of: They don't expect Germans to read this, and V_elbar would be a bit weird, as Vögeln isn't even that much in use anymore. Vögeln is actually a bit of an old-fashioned vulgar word - the more common one for "fucking" is simply "ficken". The nice thing about "vögeln" is, of course, that it is both old-fashioned and rude, plus it's punny because the noun "vogel" is actually a bird. Anyway, "vögeln" maybe isn't vulgar enough to blank, comparatively. Plus, we don't really do that in German, anyway, we either use the swearwords or we don't, we don't blank them.

I have taken the time to look into this novel because I suspected that Vögelbar actually is a pun because of the latter part of it; "-bar" is an adjective suffix ("-able" in English), but it is also, well a bar; and apparently, someone opens a club called Die Vögelbar in the book. You will all be happy to know that the novel is available on itunes, by the way.

Edited by Christian U, 02 November 2011 - 09:30 AM.

[David Meadows]

It least two reasons I can think of: They don't expect Germans to read this, and V_elbar would be a bit weird, as Vögeln isn't even that much in use anymore. Vögeln is actually a bit of an old-fashioned vulgar word - the more common one for "fucking" is simply "ficken". The nice thing about "vögeln" is, of course, that it is both old-fashioned and rude, plus it's punny because the noun "vogel" is actually a bird. Anyway, "vögeln" maybe isn't vulgar enough to blank, comparatively. Plus, we don't really do that in German, anyway, we either use the swearwords or we don't, we don't blank them.

I have taken the time to look into this novel because I suspected that Vögelbar actually is a pun because of the latter part of it; "-bar" is an adjective suffix ("-able" in English), but it is also, well a bar; and apparently, someone opens a club called Die Vögelbar in the book. You will all be happy to know that the novel is available on itunes, by the way.

I'm glad I asked

[Arjan Dirkse]

If the referendum happens in greece, they will definitely reject the "deal". And I think I'm happy with that. The thing is, their "no" will go against everything that the politicians have been trying to do; and it will definitely lead to upheaval, with possibly the dissolution of the European Monetary Union as a result. It 's a good demonstration of how direct democracy can royally screw everything that keeps society together in the behind. And although I'm against direct democracy for that very reason, in this case I'm in favor of it, because the average person in Greece has been so maligned by their terrible government. It's time to topple the board, and start a new game.

[garjones]

The sad thing is though they got the bankers to accept a hit and accept they'll only get back 50% of what they loaned, a pleasant change from the taxpayers always footing all the bill.

While I can understand the feeling on the streets if they reject this deal that 50% goes back on the bill and I can't see any better way forward for them, the next option after that is the IMF come in and strip your assets as usual.

[Jim Ohara]

If the referendum happens in greece, they will definitely reject the "deal". And I think I'm happy with that. The thing is, their "no" will go against everything that the politicians have been trying to do; and it will definitely lead to upheaval, with possibly the dissolution of the European Monetary Union as a result. It 's a good demonstration of how direct democracy can royally screw everything that keeps society together in the behind. And although I'm against direct democracy for that very reason, in this case I'm in favor of it, because the average person in Greece has been so maligned by their terrible government. It's time to topple the board, and start a new game.

I'm glad you're looking forward to social chaos, significantly higher taxes and 20 years of Europe being unable to compete with the rest of the world.

This stunt by Greece is the kind of thing that can start a war.

[Arjan Dirkse]

I'm glad you're looking forward to social chaos, significantly higher taxes and 20 years of Europe being unable to compete with the rest of the world.

This stunt by Greece is the kind of thing that can start a war.

Social chaos is pretty much unavoidable at this point I think. Just look at Greece as it is now, it's a non stop parade of rioting and striking. I don't believe that the Greek government pushing more austerity measures on their people, which is part of this new deal, will lessen the chaos?

And I don't see how a controlled bankruptcy will lead to higher taxes?

[garjones]

Social chaos is pretty much unavoidable at this point I think. Just look at Greece as it is now, it's a non stop parade of rioting and striking. I don't believe that the Greek government pushing more austerity measures on their people, which is part of this new deal, will lessen the chaos?

I lean left but there are certain realities we have to face. If you have a large debt you will either have to have higher taxes, austerity measures or a mixture of both. A government can't claim bankcruptcy, or really go bankrupt in the same way as a company. Even if they did that is not a pleasant experience anyway.

There's no solution that says stick your fingers up to the EU or IMF or anyone will suddenly restore great social conditions, they have to be paid for somehow. Even the Soviet Union embracing Communism went bust.

I think the deal they've been offered is the best they are gonna get.

[Arjan Dirkse]

A government can't claim bankcruptcy, or really go bankrupt in the same way as a company. Even if they did that is not a pleasant experience anyway.

Not a pleasant experience, but it will happen. The debt that greece has is monopoly money. It's a worthless number, it cannot be paid for by anyone right now, so Greece has to default. Banks and lenders will suffer, but they're doing that already right now.

There's no solution that says stick your fingers up to the EU or IMF or anyone will suddenly restore great social conditions, they have to be paid for somehow.

Many countries have gone bankrupt several times in their history. It's simply what happens when debt gets too high, which is the case in Greece. It's mostly sticking your fingers up to the lenders, which Greece has doen several times already, they have gone bankrupt several times even since they became independent as a modern nation in the 1900s.

Because of their being part of the EMU and their interconnectedness with European banks, other countries in the EU are not accepting a bankruptcy, and instead of letting Greece go bankrupt they're pushing new loans on them. They're delaying the inevitable and protracting the pain, I think.

Even the Soviet Union embracing Communism went bust.

After the Russian Revolution the SU simply refused to acknowledge any of the debt that was held by the Russian Empire.

[garjones]

Many countries have gone bankrupt several times in their history. It's simply what happens when debt gets too high, which is the case in Greece. It's mostly sticking your fingers up to the lenders, which Greece has doen several times already, they have gone bankrupt several times even since they became independent as a modern nation in the 1900s.

Which is why Greece isn't a particularly succesful country.

[Christian U]

Social chaos is pretty much unavoidable at this point I think. Just look at Greece as it is now, it's a non stop parade of rioting and striking. I don't believe that the Greek government pushing more austerity measures on their people, which is part of this new deal, will lessen the chaos?

I think Jim meant that chaos spreading to the rest of the EU, which is what would happen if the monetary union collapsed.


I doubt it'll come to that, anyway. I sympathise with the Greeks' unhappiness, especially with their own government, but this referendum is that same government passing the buck and refusing to take responsibility. But in the end, Greece will have to deal with their problems; they're being offered a lot of help at the moment, and if they refuse that (which would probably mean leaving the monetary union), it will take them way longer to recover.

[Arjan Dirkse]

Which is why Greece isn't a particularly succesful country.

Sure, that I can agree on. I guess that means that the government has to learn to be less wasteful in the way they work and find better ways to stimulate the economy.

I read somewhere the introduction of the euro has harmed Greece's ability to compete with other countries, that it has made them too expensive. I guess that may be true, but I don't fully comprehend how that works...I mean, it hasn't harmed Germany's ability to compete so why would it be the case with Greece?

I fucking love Greece, by the way. It's the most awesome county I've ever been to. So seeing them like this is painful. The stereotypical image of Greeks as being lazy layabouts which has emerged in this crisis is - apart from being offensive and a generalization - pretty far from the impression I got from them the times I was there. They always seemed busy, helpful and enthusiastic, but I do think that it may be true that many of them work in the unofficial sector.

wikipedia confirms that everybody that calls Greeks lazy is talking out of his ass:

The Greek labor force, which totals approximately 5 million, works the second highest number of hours per year on average among OECD countries, after South Korea.[36] The Groningen Growth & Development Centre has published a poll revealing that between 1995 and 2005, Greece was the country whose workers worked the most hours/year among European nations; Greeks worked an average of 1,900 hours per year, followed by Spaniards (average of 1,800 hours/year).

[Ogul]

And although I'm against direct democracy for that very reason, in this case I'm in favor of it, because the average person in Greece has been so maligned by their terrible government. It's time to topple the board, and start a new game.

I'm sort of the opposite. I generally support direct democracy, but this is a case in which ONLY the Greeks are voting on something that puts the entire EU at risk. I don't have a problem with a direct referendum on this, but Germans and French and everyone else in the EU should be able to vote in it too.

Social chaos is pretty much unavoidable at this point I think. Just look at Greece as it is now, it's a non stop parade of rioting and striking. I don't believe that the Greek government pushing more austerity measures on their people, which is part of this new deal, will lessen the chaos?

I think I don't care. Just put more guards on the borders.

[garjones]

[Ogul]

Why don't they write into the settlement deal that's going to be voted on that each EU member state must send a certain quota of tourists each year?

Edited by Ogul, 03 November 2011 - 04:59 AM.