199 replies to this topic

[Rory Abel]

I recall when someone posted that picture in another thread - I pointed out that it looked like the cover of Gay Times and everyone dogpiled me. How times change, hey?

In Steve's defense, and while I still totally disagree with him, gay and fetish are also two completely different things.

[James L. Sarandis]

Fair enough, but you can also tweak the shooting schedule. You don't have to shoot every episode within the bounds of a single week. If you know that you want to do a big battle in episode 12 that's going to take a long time to shoot, you can either add a week of shooting earlier in the schedule, or you can compress some of the shooting schedules for other scenes across the episode, giving you a whole spare week or more within the shooting schedule to work on this one scene. And of course you don't even need to follow the standard TV schedule, where they do 22 episodes and then take a hiatus. You could run a month or two long if necessary, or even shoot less episodes per season. A 13-ep show like Walking Dead could theoretically spend nearly a month per episode, if they could budget for that.

I think Heroes was interesting, and did some things right, but they did a lot of things wrong, and not all of them can be blames on production necessity. I think Warehouse 13 and even Haven are much better shows, on why I have to assume are far smaller budgets. I think Mortal Kombat had much better fight scenes, on what I assume was a fraction of the budget. I was rewatching Firefly recently and it was noted that it cost less to produce per episode than an episode of Angel, and yet look what craziness they managed to do with it. What's much more important is the writing, directing, acting, and producing, to make sure that the time and budget are well spent. You put Tim Kring on the show, it might be passable. You put some combination of Joss Wedon, Tim Minear, or Bryan Fuller on, with the right cast, the right concept, and enough resources to get the job done, and it's totally doable.



Like I said weeks ago, I think the best DD concept would downplay the costumed action considerably. It would be a courtroom dramedy (melancholy DD would be poison), in which he used his various gifts to act both as lawyer and investigator, figuring out the truth and then proving it in court (but all the former work done in secret). What combat would be more Covert Affairs and Person of Interest than Heroes.

As for VFX, I believe they could do "DD vision" fairly cheaply, it would be their core FX requirement, and the trick would be to figure out a "system" for it, a process that they could duplicate, and once they research it once they could reapply it easily and cheaply. I think they could manage by using some sort of rig based on the Kinect, either rigging multiple copies of them in a single rig, or building their own device that functions similarly, to "3D model" every scene they want to do this with. They could then pass that through a pre-designed digital filter to make it look pretty. It would take a lot of pre-production work to design the system, but once built, I'm thinking they could shoot a 3D scene in the same time as anything else, and post it in a fraction of the time it would take to manually 3D render every scene. Obviously the resolution on that sort of rig would be very limited, but it actually works because DD's radar vision wouldn't be precise either.

I'm thinking they could deliver this kind of shot:


Similar to how House does 3D renderings of people's insides, but in a much more streamlined manner. They could zoom in on it, circle around it, do all sorts of fun stuff. There would be a few other visual effects, but nothing too expensive.



I think enough separates him to justify it. There are dozens of lawyer shows out there, and they still do fine. This one can have a lot of elements that make those work, plus the elements of a detective show, and the occasional fight scene.

For all it's problems the radar effect from the daredevil movie wasn't bad in my opinion. If they adapted that I think it would work.

I also think you may be going in the wrong direction for what your looking for in a show. Don't use Smallville use Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. In L and C Superman spends 90% of his time as Clark he would still use his powers secretly but he'd only go into costume when it was absolutely necessary.

If the costume for Daredevil is a problem they can remove it. He looks awesome in both of these shots:






BUT I think it's important. Superman is okay not in the suit because he's a super man due to his powers even when he's normally dressed. DareDEVIL lives in HELL'S Kitchen in a costume with horns. And there's also the juxtaposition of a religious, Catholic man dressing as a devil But then again, you could make the devil theme a subtle thing in the TV show. And the colour red should be a running thing in DD (like how green is Breaking Bad's colour) considering his ties, his suit, his shades, Elektra's outfit, etc.
I think the build up to him wearing the suit (ala Man Without Fear) would be great. And he should keep the gymnast vie to his suit. Something like this would work awesomely for a poster of the Born Again arc of the show:

I like the red theme. I also think you could get past the 'skimpy' costume thought if you even have the bad guys comment on it upping the badass factor.

Bad Guy 1: Did you hear that freak in red pajamas destroyed the meth lab on 1st street. took out 15 guys on his own.

Bad Guy 2: Yeah, I heard that a cop asked him why he doesn't wear a vest, he said it would 'slow him down'.

or something like that.

[Ogul]

I like a lot of the ideas you mentioned Ogul. What about something like his Old Man Logan outfit? A few things you said instantly brought that to mind.

Yeah, maybe. That might even be a bit too "costumey" though, the embellishments and leather and all. I like the D's on the shoulders though.

The horns could be part of the design rather than protruding from his head. I don't think he'd need a hood AND a cowl. Just give him something he can pull up over his face when needed that can go down like a hood when it isn't.

Yeah, I get that there's a level of redundancy, but a hood alone has too much risk of it being pulled back, but I kind of like the idea of the hood covering his horns. I think it makes him more menacing and mysterious to the criminals.

I also think you may be going in the wrong direction for what your looking for in a show. Don't use Smallville use Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. In L and C Superman spends 90% of his time as Clark he would still use his powers secretly but he'd only go into costume when it was absolutely necessary.

That's in line with my thinking too, I really wasn't basing my concept off of either Superman show, just using them as reference for doing superpowers and stuff on a TV budget. I agree that it should mostly focus on character interactions and that sort of thing, and only dress up for a tiny portion of most shows, if at all.

[Dave Wallace]

Which limitations? The budget, or the conventions of mainstream TV drama?

Do you think the conventions of mainstream TV drama are particularly different to those of film drama?

Anyway, we seem to be veering away from the original points of contention: that DD isn't sufficiently different to any other secret-identity crime-fighter to be distinctive, and that his particular combination of legal drama and street-level crime-fighting couldn't be made to work for TV. I disagree on both counts, and I haven't seen any arguments yet that convince me otherwise.

[steveuk]

Do you think the conventions of mainstream TV drama are particularly different to those of film drama?

No, I think they're different from comics, we were specifically talking about a TV series of Daredevil. The same problem would/did occur in a feature film.

Anyway, we seem to be veering away from the original points of contention: that DD isn't sufficiently different to any other secret-identity crime-fighter to be distinctive, and that his particular combination of legal drama and street-level crime-fighting couldn't be made to work for TV. I disagree on both counts, and I haven't seen any arguments yet that convince me otherwise.

Well one day we may see a TV show that does that. Or not.

[Christian U]

What genre fusion shows do we know that we could draw a comparison from?

[Dave Wallace]

Well one day we may see a TV show that does that. Or not.

Fair enough. I agree, this is all totally hypothetical, and I don't really hold out any hope that we'll see a DD tv show anytime soon.

[Steve Sensible]

Vin Diesel is dropping hints about the role of The Vision.

I trust that Marvel Studios have more sense than this, and he's just attempting to put himself in the frame. Dear God, I hope that's the case.

[Rory Abel]

Vin Diesel is dropping hints about the role of The Vision.

I trust that Marvel Studios have more sense than this, and he's just attempting to put himself in the frame. Dear God, I hope that's the case.

Yeah, it's way way too early for them to be casting roles. I highly doubt Whedon has even finished his first draft.

[Dave Wallace]

The only person who I think would be a better choice for The Vision than Vin Diesel is... anyone.

[JRCarter]

The only person who I think would be a better choice for The Vision than Vin Diesel is... anyone.

Like Clark Gregg?

[Dave Wallace]

Like Clark Gregg?

I dunno... I like the idea, but Coulson not being 'super' is part of what makes him so likeable, I think.

[Steve Sensible]

I think Vision should be played by someone like Doug Jones, who played the Silver Surfer and Abe Sapien. That's much more how I see him than some muscle-bound moron.

[JRCarter]

On Bleeding Cool, someone suggested Alan Tudyk.

[Steve Sensible]

Ugh! It's Joss Whedon, so every idiot suggests someone from Firefly. Hey, why not Nathan Fillion!

[Jim Ohara]

Wait, someone posting an image on Facebook is now a news lead? Does Bleeding Cool need hits that badly?

I'm liking the sound of the story with Guardians. Smart link back to Earth and it feels like the Guardians will be a 'Dirty Dozen' kind of outfit.

[garjones]

I liked the suggestion on Twitter today of a Madrox TV show with a mutant private eye firm, maybe a bit too similar to Angel for Whedon though.

[Christian U]

Ugh! It's Joss Whedon, so every idiot suggests someone from Firefly. Hey, why not Nathan Fillion!

Nonsense! Obviously, Nicholas Brendon was born to play this role!

[Steve Sensible]

Nonsense! Obviously, Nicholas Brendon was born to play this role!

So famous I had to Google him...

[Rory Abel]

I liked the suggestion on Twitter today of a Madrox TV show with a mutant private eye firm, maybe a bit too similar to Angel for Whedon though.

I think if they played up the dupes with different personalities it could easily have its own identity.