196 replies to this topic

[al-x]

Speaking of Ms. Newmar...

http://www.ontheredc...anchise/8752954

I have to chuckle at that... it reminds me of Adam West who
still prefers his comical 60's version of Batman to the latest
trilogy. Different generations I guess.

To each their own.


Al...

[brucegray666]

Ha! That Tom Waits clip is uncannily close to Ledger's Joker. Casting call for the reboot???

[Jonny]

Yeah, I think that Batman should be left fallow for a while now. We've just had a hugely promoted final movie in a generally well-received trilogy, so this version will be in the public consciousness for a good few years. When the memory of these films has faded somewhat, the appetite will be there for a new take on the character. And whether they bring him back via a new Bat-series or via a JLA film, I don't think there's ever been a real need to dwell on his origin - a silent, black 'n' white flashback to the Waynes' murder (ala Year One) and a brief mention of travelling the world in the intervening years, training his mind and body to fulfil his childhood vow, is really all that's required. As for whether it could top Nolan's trilogy, I don't see why not - as good as these past three films have generally been, I still think the '90s animated series is the best screen version of Batman we've had... (lobs metaphorical grenade into room, runs aways...)

In theory, DC have presumably got a much larger back catalogue of characters to access than Marvel (what with them having a few decades on their competitor, and not having rented out any of their golden geese characters), so they've got a lot of film options that they could try out in the meantime. As mentioned in this thread and the "next comic movie" thread, Wonder Woman deserves a decent crack - it's an instantly recognisable international icon, it could fill that "big summer blockbuster" void, and if the positive reactions to Black Widow and Catwoman this summer are anything to go by, audiences are ripe for a superheroine movie.

Other than WW, there's a bit less name recognition, so it's worth DC exploring less traditional avenues, or twists on the genre. Legion of Super-Heroes, blurring sci-fi and superhero, could work brilliantly, especially if you play up the "inspired by exploits of 21st century icons (Supes/Bats/etc)" riff. Or if we're looking at someting a bit more modest rather than a huge franchise, DC have a some great horror options (a proper Hellblazer would be fun), westerns (Bat Lash would be cool!), war (Enemy Ace, anyone? Actually, I kinda like the idea of Creature Commandoes or Unknown Soldier, but then I'm odd like that...), and more besides.

[craggy]

as good as these past three films have generally been, I still think the '90s animated series is the best screen version of Batman we've had... (lobs metaphorical grenade into room, runs aways...)

a Truth Grenade? I thought those were all decommissioned back in aught-two?

[Dave Wallace]

I think they should reboot it right away. In part because they need to get the Joker back.

Make it big colorful action, more in line with Avengers or the Pirates movie, or the Morrison run. Do a few like that, then switch it back to the ultra-seriousness.

This is pretty much the approach I'd like to see, too. I think it's unrealistic to expect WB to leave the Batman franchise alone just because Nolan is departing - they'd be foolish to pass up the huge amounts of cash that the character can bring in - but I also think that no-one is going to be able to come in and out-Nolan Nolan, and anyone who tried would suffer by the comparison. A different approach is the only way I can see them keeping the franchise sustainable, in the near-to-middle-term future, at least.

[Robert B]

This is pretty much the approach I'd like to see, too. I think it's unrealistic to expect WB to leave the Batman franchise alone just because Nolan is departing - they'd be foolish to pass up the huge amounts of cash that the character can bring in - but I also think that no-one is going to be able to come in and out-Nolan Nolan, and anyone who tried would suffer by the comparison. A different approach is the only way I can see them keeping the franchise sustainable, in the near-to-middle-term future, at least.

They should just call the new one "Detective Comics," and get Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss on the job. And what they hell, they can bring Cumberbatch along to play the Riddler. I'll buy tickets now to see it twice on opening night regardless of who puts on the cowl.

[Chris D]

I still think if they're going to reboot the franchise (or rather when they do), I'd like them to open it with the origin of Robin instead of going all the way back to a Batman origin. The Batman/Robin dynamic is an important part of the character and it hasn't been done properly yet.

[David Meadows]

He probably hasn't seen it yet since he says he was on holiday in France in the comics section.

France has a comics section?

[Steve Sensible]

I still think if they're going to reboot the franchise (or rather when they do), I'd like them to open it with the origin of Robin instead of going all the way back to a Batman origin. The Batman/Robin dynamic is an important part of the character and it hasn't been done properly yet.

I side with Nolan on this one. There's no way you can make that work on-screen without it being completely laughable.

[Chris D]

I side with Nolan on this one. There's no way you can make that work on-screen without it being completely laughable.

I don't really see why, but okay.

[Elliot Balson]

I still think if they're going to reboot the franchise (or rather when they do), I'd like them to open it with the origin of Robin instead of going all the way back to a Batman origin. The Batman/Robin dynamic is an important part of the character and it hasn't been done properly yet.

That's a pretty good idea actually - follow Robin, have Bruce pop up at the Graysons' show, then again as Batman when he recruits him. Go from there.

I was about to say the easiest way to make it more whimsical (if that's the word) is the introduction of the sidekicks.

While it might be an effort to keep some of Batman's darker side intact while also bringing Robin in, I think it could be achievable. As Jonny said, the animated series managed - something along those lines - though more action packed - could work really well.

[Steve Sensible]

I don't really see why, but okay.

The whole idea of teen sidekicks is something best left in the 40s and 50s. They're essentially just joke characters. It doesn't matter how much padded leather you put him in, Robin is just lame.

[Elliot Balson]

The whole idea of teen sidekicks is something best left in the 40s and 50s. They're essentially just joke characters. It doesn't matter how much padded leather you put him in, Robin is just lame.

I dunno, Arkham City did something interesting by making him pretty much completely focused on being a crime fighter - I think they had him as a cage fighter when he wasn't on the streets. If they worked in some of that he could be more Batman's contemporary and partner than 'sidekick'.

[Jim Ohara]

I dunno, Arkham City did something interesting by making him pretty much completely focused on being a crime fighter - I think they had him as a cage fighter when he wasn't on the streets. If they worked in some of that he could be more Batman's contemporary and partner than 'sidekick'.

Buddy movies work when both characters are around the same age. When one is half the age of the other is somehow become really sexualized. There's no getting away from that with Batman and Robin.

[Elliot Balson]

Buddy movies work when both characters are around the same age. When one is half the age of the other is somehow become really sexualized. There's no getting away from that with Batman and Robin.

That's a good point - what if they skip Robin altogether and have be Nightwing right off the bat? Still gets taught everything, but starts older. Makes more sense for Batman to pick someone closer to his age and background as his successor. Might take a lot of reworking of Grayson's history - but he could do something similar to Wayne and travel once his parents are killed, maybe looking for the killer or being part of a travelling circus. Or both, using the travelling circus as a way to get to places he'd struggle to on his limited income. Eventually getting recruited and assisted by The World's Greatest Detective - or going to him when they arrive in Gotham.
Removes the sexualisation thing, makes it more of a relationship like Alfred and Bruce's.
Could borrow form Earth One's relationship between Alfred and Bruce - the former being reluctant at first to help them, thinking they've chosen the wrong road to go down, then have them come around when they realise that if they help the young hero can actually achieve his goals. Not an exact match of relationships, but might work.

[Adam Balson]

I might as well throw my idea in - Batman Beyond with John 'Robin' Blake.

Superman comes down and shows opens up a world with superpowers and Batman is a myth again. John/Robin has tried an failed to be Batman since he just can't do what Bruce did. A now too old Bruce (mid/late forties by the time Man Of Steel and the other DC movies are out) comes back to have his family with Selina and teaches Robin how to be Batman. Bruce sees that they need organisation and a team because he did it alone and it didn't do him many favours. Bruce can be the Alfred AND the Fox to Blake's Batman. THEN we get the Detective Batman that Sarah was talking about. Bruce was a billionaire superhero with lots of toys. BLAKE is the detective, it's his damn job description. Just have Bruce in his ear every now and again giving him tips and outside advice. Like Alfred and Fox did in The Dark Knight. (Plus, how badass would it be to have an older Bale -maybe with his beard and cane back- literally in the cave helping Blake in secret? So in a weird way he stays as a bat man in the same way Prison Pit was a Lazarus Pit. And give him a dog called Alfred rather than Ace.) Hell, add Catwoman to the Justice League to one help Blake, two add more female members and three give Hathaway her second chance at Catwoman.

Have BRUCE be the figure head of the Justice League -not Batman- since he's done this all before. Batman was the first super hero, Superman can be the first super hero that becomes the catalyst for the Justice League.

[Jacowboy (Jonathan)]

I saw it yesterday... and I don't know if I was tired or something else but maaaan... that was a total disapointment =S

First of all, I couldn't get "into" the movie, from the fisrt scene, until almost the end... To me it seemed like a bunch of cut & pasted scenes showing a lot of stuff I wasn't really interested in. The very first plane scene, while visually striking and pretty, was kind of useless and was a rather bad way to start a Batman movie I thought... From there one, it was kinda hard to follow (thankfully I had spoiled my self some, otherwise I'd be consfused as heck)... I might've been sleepy, 'cause I didn't really understand how come Bruce had a 'bad' leg... was it an act? It didn't seem so...

Then I don't know... a lot of stuff happened with a lot of characters... and then Bruce finally decides it's time to get his act together, and blam he gets owned by a Predator Cosplayer douchebag with an annoying (and sometimes unintelligible) voice... Seriously? Couldn't they think of a better way to do Bane? Why use a mouth-piece? How is a mouthpiece supposed to help with pain? And why make it look like a Predator's mouth? That really took me out everytime.

The throwdown was great, very violent, and a vast improvement over Nolan's other action scenes. Cleaner camera work, so thumbs up for that. But then, we get back to square one and Bruce is all broken and emo AGAIN (didn't we just see that like one hour ago?)... Then he FINALLY gets his shit together for the 2nd time (3rd if you count Batman Begins) and goes kick some ass, with some weird-ass contrived plan to reclaim the city...

Add to that the many many stupid, cliché scenes and ridiculous plot points, like the bomb thing... Why not just take it with the bat-copter thing right away? Why would the government not send some CIA/FBI uber agents to smack that asshole Bane to the ground? Then there was the "WHERE IS IT??!?!?!" scene which kinda reminded me of Anakin-Vader's "Noooaaoooaooouuuuhhh"... And oh how I laughed that poor Gordon was about the only guy left in the city who didn't know that Bruce Wayne was Batman... And don't get me started with the 'blond cop' whoever the heck that was... That guy just served to waste time (Also: minus points for the obligatory "kids-scene" that apparently HAS TO BE in any superhero movie...)

The bat copter was both great and super lame... Great because the idea is pretty cool... but the final product was more like a batmobile that flew... Very tank-like and square...

The biggest FAIL is without a doubt the horribly corny and ridiculous plan of the Assassin's League to destroy Gotham City... Which is pretty much the same problem I had with Batman Begins... Both plans really felt like they came straight off Austin Power's Doctor Evil's desk. And unfortunately, in DKR, it's pretty much the back-bone of the plot of the movie... and it was just frustrating.

I don't know... I'll say it again, maybe I was distracted, or sleepy (I dozed off for a couple of minutes at some point)... but man, it just didn't manage to reel me in, like TDK did. I can recognize the technical "savoir faire" displayed in the movie... I thought Nolan shot/edited his action scenes a lot better than in his previous movies. Some scenes were just visually striking, and the acting was correct and the FX was great... But it felt extremely disjointed and the plot was all over the place (which works with a character like Nolan-Joker, but not here... at all).

The best moment: Crane's Tribunal "Death... by exile" line, that was a sorely needed honest laugh. Anne Hathaway/Selina Kyle was well handled (at least for the most part of the movie), and she did a terrific job (still not to happy with the costume though).

Aside from that, what I enjoyed very much were a lot of the concepts Nolan throws in the movie... The whole "Batman as a myth/legend/symbol" and not as anyone in particular, that carried across the trilogy was a very clever way to do the character for the movies, while simultaneously giving the "Bruce Wayne" story a begining, evolution and end. Also, including Blake and making him the "heir" to the myth is a great send-off for the trilogy. Another thing, as some have pointed out, I thought the "Lazarus Pit" re-imagining was very smart and very fitting for a more realistic world.

In the end, Nolan's trilogy is a very interesting character study on the world's most damous pop-culture superhero icon, with a lot of neat ideas and concepts, but a lot of misteps scattered all throughout... I'm gonna definetly give it another chance when the Blu-ray pops out... But yeah, very disapointed (even when my expectations were actually low)... My lady friend was even more disapointed (she's a huge fan of the movies).

[Dave Wallace]

Buddy movies work when both characters are around the same age. When one is half the age of the other is somehow become really sexualized.

I really don't see this.

[Arjan Dirkse]

Sidekick schmidekick. Just call it "master and apprentice". Teacher and student. There's nothing silly about it.

[Don Lerch]

I really don't see this.

You would be surprised at how much becomes sexualized for Mr O'hara