103 replies to this topic

[Rory Abel]

The village voices review focuses heavily on Banes connection to OWS.

[Chris D]

Ignoring the fact that the script was written before Occupy Wall Street even started. In fact, I think most of it was probably filmed before the Occupy movement started. But hey, if it's topical...

[Robert B]

Ignoring the fact that the script was written before Occupy Wall Street even started. In fact, I think most of it was probably filmed before the Occupy movement started. But hey, if it's topical...

It didn't ignore that fact at all. Here's where the writer first mentions OWS, and doesn't frame it as the movie being a response to the protests themselves but the climate leading up to it (emphasis mine):

If The Dark Knight openly invited interpretation as the War on Terror Batman, then The Dark Knight Rises, whose creators obviously scented the class discontent in the air, is the Occupy Wall Street installment. "You think all this can last?" down-and-out survivor Selina says upon meeting Wayne at a fancy-dress masquerade ball. "There's a storm coming."

EDIT: To include link. http://www.villagevo...why-so-serious/

The first paragraph of that review nicely outlines why I haven't warmed to much of Nolan's work, by the way.

Edited by Robert B, 19 July 2012 - 03:14 AM.

[Rory Abel]

That paragraph also covers why there's no way Nolan views Batman as the villain.

[Johnny Henning]

http://www.salon.com...il_masterpiece/

It’s no exaggeration to say that the “Dark Knight” universe is fascistic (and I’m not name-calling or claiming that Nolan has Nazi sympathies). It’s simply a fact. Nolan’s screenplay (co-written with his brother, Jonathan Nolan, and based on a story developed with David S. Goyer) simply pushes the Batman legend to its logical extreme, as a vision of human history understood as a struggle between superior individual wills, a tale of symbolic heroism and sacrifice set against the hopeless corruption of society. Maybe it’s an oversimplification to say that that’s the purest form of the ideology that was bequeathed from Richard Wagner to Nietzsche to Adolf Hitler, but not by much. Whether you think Nolan is endorsing or condemning that idea, or straddling the fence with a smirk on his face, is very much up to you.

From the description, I think Nolan's story was as influenced by the mutants section at the beginning of Millers THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS as it was by the Knightfall storyline that introduced Bane long after. You can see great similarity between the unnamed hulking leader of the mutant gang and Bane in the comics and the movies.

[Chris D]

It didn't ignore that fact at all. Here's where the writer first mentions OWS, and doesn't frame it as the movie being a response to the protests themselves but the climate leading up to it (emphasis mine):

I stand corrected. I'm not reading any reviews as I don't want to be spoiled. I guess I'm just tired of all these political commentaries, and couple that with an interview I read not to long ago where Nolan talked about not really consciously taking any current politics as influences for his Batman movie, rather he's just trying to tell what he sees as a story about Batman and I'm a little touchy on the whole thing.

Not that it's in anyway invalid to make those associations as a viewer, it's pretty natural I suppose. I just need a break from politics, I think. I'm also feeling a bit crabby today in general.

[Steve Sensible]

I stand corrected. I'm not reading any reviews as I don't want to be spoiled. I guess I'm just tired of all these political commentaries, and couple that with an interview I read not to long ago where Nolan talked about not really consciously taking any current politics as influences for his Batman movie, rather he's just trying to tell what he sees as a story about Batman and I'm a little touchy on the whole thing.

Well it was pretty obvious from the first trailer that Nolan was tapping into the current political climate, with Selina's whispered speech to Bruce - "There's a storm coming, Mr. Wayne. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all going to wonder how you ever thought you could live so large - and leave so little for the rest of us."

Bane apparently exploits that mindset, and causes an uprising in Gotham.

[garjones]

Having just seen it (and I promise no spoilers which means I can't add any more to this debate until it's been out in the debauched west) , while the Limbaugh thing is very silly, political analogies and questions over use of power are all over this film. Some of the questions posed in the last page or two of this thread are actual lines of dialogue in the movie.

[Arjan Dirkse]

http://www.salon.com...il_masterpiece/

It's Salon, they think everybody is a fascist.

[Robert B]

couple that with an interview I read not to long ago where Nolan talked about not really consciously taking any current politics as influences for his Batman movie, rather he's just trying to tell what he sees as a story about Batman

I can see why Nolan wouldn't want to discuss his or the movies' politics in an interview but unless he's living in a vacuum I don't see how that could possibly be true.

[Rory Abel]

My friends on facebook are all talking about how the movie is very pro the 1%. One said he was really surprised by all the "those poor multi-millionaires" stuff.

[garjones]

They saw a different film to me.

[Arjan Dirkse]

So there's quite a few negative reviews up already, and some people having a completely different interpretation to "Nolan's politics" than some others who have seen it. I like that...mostly I don't like the movies that everybody likes, if there is such a consensus I think the movie must have avoided taking risks.

Gar, were you happy with the action scenes? I have been disappointed by those in Nolan's Batmovies so far.

[garjones]

Gar, were you happy with the action scenes? I have been disappointed by those in Nolan's Batmovies so far.

Yeah, I mean you have to take into account the more realistic world of Batman compared to something like Avengers but my bugbear is 'armpit action' where the camera flicks from random POV quickly in a blurry mess and I didn't see that here. It could be followed easily. I haven't seen The Dark Knight since it was in the cinema but I think this is better in that regard.

The politics? Again staying away from spoilers, this isn't a film that rams down an agenda but does confront those points. Different characters ask different questions on the side of the status quo and wealth and influence and give different answers.Some change direction, some are lying and manipulating.

It doesn't surprise me that people could take out of it that it supports either the occupy movement or the 1%. To be fair to Nolan it's more nuanced than that (and bear in mind I didn't love this film or the other Nolan Batfilms so I'm not covering for it out of fanboy delight).

[John Mosby]

No spoilers but I agree with Gar that, having seen it, it's a film that sounds more like it's about specific political agendas than it actually is.

[Chris D]

I can see why Nolan wouldn't want to discuss his or the movies' politics in an interview but unless he's living in a vacuum I don't see how that could possibly be true.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying. On the other hand, this does seem to be following the lines established way back in Begins 7-8 years ago. And the whole "rich vs. poor" type political arguments is hardly new and something that's certainly been a part of the Batman mythos at least since Miller's work with the character. It just happens to also be a timely theme in the right now.

In any case, I expect this to be the most sharply divided movie that Nolan has probably ever done. If only because of the massive hype and the fact that endings usually cause the most stir. I've got tickets booked for a midnight tonight, so it's going to be a long day for me.

[Steve Sensible]

I've got tickets booked for a midnight tonight, so it's going to be a long day for me.

I'm seeing it tomorrow afternoon (20 hours and counting!) It's killing me that I can't go in that other thread yet.

[garjones]

I'm seeing it tomorrow afternoon (20 hours and counting!) It's killing me that I can't go in that other thread yet.

We're having such fun in there. Mosby and I are kind of half agreed so far. John Hendrick was too hung over to say much more than he thought it was great. Blank Ed Boy found it disappointing and his summation suggests we may have another Prometheus thread on our hands.

The unifying theme is Sir Michael Caine is brilliant.

[Arjan Dirkse]

There's a breakfast showing here in the local cinema, at 6 AM

I don't need to see it that bad. I can wait until tomorrow evening.

[Steve Sensible]

I'm pretty sure I'll love it, just because Harry Wotsisname over at AICN was "massively disappointed" by it.

The thing about most of Nolan's films is they don't hold up that well to close scrutiny - there are a whole lot of things in Dark Knight that don't make sense or are just plain silly - but there are moments of pure, visceral cinema in there that completely blew me away at the time. The whole 20 minutes between them capturing the Joker and him escaping again still leave me breathless.