153 replies to this topic

[John Brook]

I always find the "worst movie ever" type of comment a bit ridiculous, as most of the time I see people critiquing a movie they did not like, and they call it the "worst movie ever". It made me ponder that this type of label put on a film is because of the viewer's experience and the type of films they have watched.I have seen my share of crappy films, but I can let you know exactly why I did not like it. The only example I can think of when it comes to this type of film that I have seen is most likely The Room, because of the horrible cinematography, horrific acting, terrible dialogues and nonsensical story. It was bad, and there was no redeeming feature to this film, except if you want to play a drinking game. It might be one of the worst films I have ever seen, but I can't honestly call it the worst because I have seen a lot of bad films in my life.

I personally never say "it's the worst movie I have ever seen", because I always judge a film based on its intention, and whether it succeeded or not. In recent memories, I really disliked Prometheus because it had the big ambition of telling an intelligent sci-fi story...except it fell into B-Movie tropes after the first hour. On the other end, I watched Lockout, and while it was far from being amazing, it never hid its ambitions of being a rip-off from 1980s sci-fi action flicks, and it was competently made. I judge a film based on what it's intended to do, and whether it succeeds or not. While I am not trying to compare Lockout to Prometheus, I will definitely say I enjoyed one over the other, even though both are bad films.
I am always doubtful of this label when its put on most films...Obviously, they have not seen any Ed Wood films.

The counter-arguement with "Best movie Ever!" is the same for me. I have seen a lot of great films, but I will never say Best movie eve regarding any films I watch because I know there are tons of amazing films I have never seen. Until last year I was not familiar with Woody Allen's work, and I have seen La Dolce Vita for the first time this year. While I won't say La Dolce Vita is the BEST FILM EVER, I will say it's a beautiful piece of art, and I am glad I watched it.

Ultimately, using hyperbole when talking about art is problematic in my opinion since it does not value the single piece that's being critiqued, and one needs to ponder about the type of critique it, and look objectively at the piece's intent, and if it succeeds or fail regarding what it is trying to tell.

Edited by John Brook, 03 July 2012 - 01:46 AM.

[Robert B]

Plus I'm pretty sure Con Air is both the Worst Movie Ever AND the Best Movie Ever.

[Johnny Henning]

Plus I'm pretty sure Con Air is both the Worst Movie Ever AND the Best Movie Ever.

That is a good argument.

[stephanie familiar]

I always find the "worst movie ever" type of comment a bit ridiculous, as most of the time I see people critiquing a movie they did not like, and they call it the "worst movie ever". It made me ponder that this type of label put on a film is because of the viewer's experience and the type of films they have watched.I have seen my share of crappy films, but I can let you know exactly why I did not like it. The only example I can think of when it comes to this type of film that I have seen is most likely The Room, because of the horrible cinematography, horrific acting, terrible dialogues and nonsensical story. It was bad, and there was no redeeming feature to this film, except if you want to play a drinking game. It might be one of the worst films I have ever seen, but I can't honestly call it the worst because I have seen a lot of bad films in my life.

I personally never say "it's the worst movie I have ever seen", because I always judge a film based on its intention, and whether it succeeded or not. In recent memories, I really disliked Prometheus because it had the big ambition of telling an intelligent sci-fi story...except it fell into B-Movie tropes after the first hour. On the other end, I watched Lockout, and while it was far from being amazing, it never hid its ambitions of being a rip-off from 1980s sci-fi action flicks, and it was competently made. I judge a film based on what it's intended to do, and whether it succeeds or not. While I am not trying to compare Lockout to Prometheus, I will definitely say I enjoyed one over the other, even though both are bad films.
I am always doubtful of this label when its put on most films...Obviously, they have not seen any Ed Wood films.

The counter-arguement with "Best movie Ever!" is the same for me. I have seen a lot of great films, but I will never say Best movie eve regarding any films I watch because I know there are tons of amazing films I have never seen. Until last year I was not familiar with Woody Allen's work, and I have seen La Dolce Vita for the first time this year. While I won't say La Dolce Vita is the BEST FILM EVER, I will say it's a beautiful piece of art, and I am glad I watched it.

Ultimately, using hyperbole when talking about art is problematic in my opinion since it does not value the single piece that's being critiqued, and one needs to ponder about the type of critique it, and look objectively at the piece's intent, and if it succeeds or fail regarding what it is trying to tell.

i find this post a bit pretentious.

[Johnny Henning]

Yeah - come on, admit it - have you ever really heard anyone say such and such was the "best movie ever" and mean it? Or vice versa? It's intentional hyperbole to express strong feeling.

My question is can any movie be your personal best or worst? Or someone's? For example, some people would cite FIGHT CLUB as their favorite or "best movie evah!" Also, there is a contingent of people who would likely say FIGHT CLUB is the worst movie "evah!"

But the important thing to remember is that the first rule of Fight Club is that we do not talk about Fight Club!

Still, my question is this - are human beings truly so diverse that you could literally pull ANY movie off the shelf and it would actually be someone's personal worst or personal best? OR is it more likely that only a few movies from Citizen Kane to The Avengers - From Plan 9 to Resident Evil 4 - that only a small percentage of all the movies ever made are actually worthy of being worst or best?

[Jim Ohara]

Plus I'm pretty sure Con Air is both the Worst Movie Ever AND the Best Movie Ever.

I don't think anything else can be added to this thread. You pretty much summed it up.

[John Brook]

Yeah - come on, admit it - have you ever really heard anyone say such and such was the "best movie ever" and mean it? Or vice versa? It's intentional hyperbole to express strong feeling.

My question is can any movie be your personal best or worst? Or someone's? For example, some people would cite FIGHT CLUB as their favorite or "best movie evah!" Also, there is a contingent of people who would likely say FIGHT CLUB is the worst movie "evah!"

But the important thing to remember is that the first rule of Fight Club is that we do not talk about Fight Club!

Still, my question is this - are human beings truly so diverse that you could literally pull ANY movie off the shelf and it would actually be someone's personal worst or personal best? OR is it more likely that only a few movies from Citizen Kane to The Avengers - From Plan 9 to Resident Evil 4 - that only a small percentage of all the movies ever made are actually worthy of being worst or best?

I hear it whenever I step out of the academic ivory tower actually, and whenever I happen to hang out with people outside of my close social circle. Of course very few movies will be listed on people's best lists. I am actually thinking the usage of these types of hyperbole really depends on the cinematic culture of said person that will use such a hyperbole once they reach an adult age. There are very few amazing films which will be considered to be excellent.

Whereas the list for horrible films is long, but ultimately for me I usually tend to forget about horrible films. Heck, you just reminded me I have actually sseen Resident Evil 4 in theaters.


I still like the Rock more as B3St M0V13 3V@R/W0rST M0v13 3V@R !!!

And Stephanie, isn't pretentious a synonym for French :P ? All jokes aside, I am sorry if it came off as pompous, it was not the original intention.

Edited by John Brook, 03 July 2012 - 03:53 AM.

[Chris D]

I still like the Rock more as B3St M0V13 3V@R/W0rST M0v13 3V@R !!!

Yes, I too prefer it to Con Air. But we can all at least agree that the movie must involve Nic Cage somehow.

[John Brook]

I surprisingly like a lot of Nick Cage movies, and he is very much someone I enjoy seeing. It has become a hipster cliché to love/hate/worship Cage, but he is a decent actor who just goes over the top too often.

THE BEES ! NOT THE BEES ! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Chris D]

I'm fairly indifferent towards Cage, myself. He's made some movies I quite enjoy and others that I have little to no desire to ever see. Which isn't much different than most actors out there.

[Will Carper]

Cage can certainly act. Adaptation, Bad Lieutenant, Wild at Heart, Raising Arizona, even Kick-Ass. I think he's fantastic. But I have no desire to see about two-thirds of his movies.

[John Mosby]

After watching movies professionally for over twenty years, there's plenty of movies I disliked, but only a handful where I truly felt I'd been mugged by inadequacy.

[Patrick A]

Roadhouse is the best and worst movie ever.

[Robert B]

I surprisingly like a lot of Nick Cage movies, and he is very much someone I enjoy seeing. It has become a hipster cliché to love/hate/worship Cage, but he is a decent actor who just goes over the top too often.

THE BEES ! NOT THE BEES ! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I think it's more that most people play it safe with their careers, and he does the opposite. From his choices of projects to how he approaches them. He's highly unpredictable, although at this point he might be getting a little predictable with his unpredictability.

[HowardAshton]

I can tell you all that after extensive research, I have concluded Star Wars is the best film ever made, and Star Wars: Episode 1, The Phantom Menace is the worst film ever made.

On a serious note; something that's always irked me is these notions of things being factually the best ever because some critics have decided it is so. For example; the other week I was talking to a friend who had never seen Casablanca, I said "you must watch it, it's possibly the best film ever made", she replied; "I thought Citizen Kane was the best film ever made?" as if this was some sort of established fact. It annoys me more with music, people constantly tell me that The Beatles are the best band ever, not because they're especially big fans of The Beatles, but because that's apparently fact. There's no such thing as the best film/band/book/pizza topping ever, everything has it's relative merits and it's all trivial.

[David Meadows]

I think it's understood that when somebody says "best movie ever" it's shorthand for "best movie out of the ones I have personally seen". Nobody (nobody sane) will seriously claim they can judge every movie they have never seen.

I write a lot of concert reviews, and it became a standard joke on some music forums that I would always say "That was the best concert I have ever seen." Because, honestly, was every concert actually better than all the ones that came before it? But I defend every single use of the statement, in the context of the review I wrote it in. Because at the point I come out of a concert, I feel that I have just witnessed the best thing ever. I honestly feel that. If I ever lose that feeling, I may stop going to concerts. Because to feel that feeling is the whole reason I go.

Likewise, I came out of The Avengers telling everybody it was the best film I had ever seen. That may not be true in the cold light of day -- but it's how I felt as I walked out of the cinema. It was not hyperbole: at that moment, it was absolutely honestly how I felt.

Edited by David Meadows, 03 July 2012 - 02:32 PM.

[Jim Ohara]

Ah but David, Avengers is the best movie of all time....if you're a fan of the characters, enjoyed the previous Marvel movies and like big summer blockbusters.

The only real way to democratically determine the best movie of all time is to use attendance or box office or DVD rentals. No-one likes that process, but it's the only scientific way.

[Russell H]

The only real way to democratically determine the best movie of all time is to use attendance or box office or DVD rentals. No-one likes that process, but it's the only scientific way.

No-one likes it because that tells you nothing about quality, only about popularity.

[Jim Ohara]

So if the most popular thing isn't the highest quality thing are all the people wrong?

I know it's common for people on the web to roll their eyes at the most popular things (like reality TV for example) but shouldn't there be a measure of respect for something that can attract the most people and get folks willing to pay just to experience it? Or do we believe financial success is mostly luck?

[Chris D]

Or do we believe financial success is mostly luck?

I think it's a mix of marketing, timing, the product, and luck. Obviously a guy like James Cameron is pretty tapped into what the movie going public wants, which seems to be visually stunning, sweeping epics that don't really challenge the audience. Titanic and Avatar are very basic plots that have been done dozens of times before, but Cameron managed to bring a larger than life spectacle to them. A sort of technical brilliance that swept people away into that world. But I'm fairly certain if those movies had opened during the summer months they wouldn't have had near the success. Obviously that just speculation, but the lack of competition they faced must have played a part.

Moving beyond movies and looking at the music industry I'd say marketing is probably the biggest aspect (and the right connections in order to get things on the radio). I rarely think that the top selling artists are anywhere near the best in the business, but they know how to sell themselves (or their record labels do).