194 replies to this topic

[Chris D]

It was PG-13 here. Then again the censors here are obsessed with sex and nudity above anything else. Even moreso than the US.

Of which there was really none...honestly, I was kind of surprised it was rated-R. No nudity, just the start of a sex scene, not a lot (if any) swearing, and not that much gore either. I think The Dark Knight was more brutal, dark, and intense than Prometheus.

It had a $50 million dollar opening weekend here, which I suppose is decent for an R-rated dark, pseudo intellectual sort of prequel, sci-fi movie. But I don't anticipate it having good hold over from weekend to weekend.

Edited by Chris D, 10 June 2012 - 05:59 PM.

[garjones]

Of which there was really none...honestly, I was kind of surprised it was rated-R. No nudity, just the start of a sex scene, not a lot (if any) swearing, and not that much gore either. I think The Dark Knight was more brutal, dark, and intense than Prometheus.

I'd agree with you. From your description I don't think they cut anything here.

[Steve Sensible]

Presumably the "abortion" scene earned it the R rating. I have no idea how graphic that got because I closed my eyes for most of it.

[Dave Wallace]

Visually, it makes a lot of admittedly beautiful but very ham-fisted references to 2001 and other Kubrick, Spielberg or Terrence Malick sorts of movies. The opening sequence definitely and intentionally was meant to invoke the later part of David Bowman's trip through the stargate as he watches the Earth form and cool. David is a walking HAL-9000 - and he is something like a grown up David from AI mixed with a bit of Jude Law's Joe from the same film - and you even have a young man in old man make-up sitting in a chair in a white room near the end. I'm sure there is more

There are definitely more: off the top of my head - and having only seen it once - the very first shot of Earth is very close to the opening of 2001 (the bit with the planetary alignment and 'thus spake Zarathustra'), there's at least one cut towards the beginning that's meant to imply progression over millions of years (like the bone/spaceship cut in 2001), some of the spacesuit designs and interior details are straight from 2001, and the dialogue between the ship's computer and David is very HAL-like.

In terms of tone, it feels as much like a 2001 sequel as it does part of the Alien franchise.

[steveuk]

The operation is less gory than any I've seen in a documentary.

I watched the DVD extras for 'Alien' from the quadrilogy boxset and now I'm reading one of the O'Bannon/Shusett drafts of the screenplay. It's amazing how much of 'Prometheus' come from all this material.

http://www.dailyscri...lien_early.html

The Prometheus itself resembles the Nostromo's landing section from 'Alien' but mostly it looks a lot like some of Ron Cobb's early designs. It's not a direct copy, but there are elements.

The idea of the pyramid and the urns (rather than eggs) comes from the early script and it answers some of the questions we've had about 'Alien' over the years.

I remember discussing how big the original, alien, ship was, and whether the huge space full of eggs was part of the ship? Well the scene comes directly from the early drafts where the space is inside the pyramid and the ship is nowhere near it.

[Steve Sensible]

The operation is less gory than any I've seen in a documentary.

Yeah, I can't watch those kinds of documentaries either.

[Johnny Henning]

The operation is less gory than any I've seen in a documentary.

I watched the DVD extras for 'Alien' from the quadrilogy boxset and now I'm reading one of the O'Bannon/Shusett drafts of the screenplay. It's amazing how much of 'Prometheus' come from all this material.

http://www.dailyscri...lien_early.html

The Prometheus itself resembles the Nostromo's landing section from 'Alien' but mostly it looks a lot like some of Ron Cobb's early designs. It's not a direct copy, but there are elements.

The idea of the pyramid and the urns (rather than eggs) comes from the early script and it answers some of the questions we've had about 'Alien' over the years.

I remember discussing how big the original, alien, ship was, and whether the huge space full of eggs was part of the ship? Well the scene comes directly from the early drafts where the space is inside the pyramid and the ship is nowhere near it.

Here's Giger's original design for the space pyramid cut from Alien:


Very close to the pyramid/temple structure in Prometheus.

Honestly, I think the original idea was that the space jockies' ship landed on the planet and discovered the pyramid and was infected just like Nostromo would be. Not that the jockey created the xenomorph. However, since they were both designed by Giger - alien and space jockey plus ship - the visual association led to a narrative connection. Especially when they got rid of the pyramidal urn for the eggs from the original script.

In Planet of the Vampires, they have a similar scene where the human explorers discover an ancient ship of dead giant aliens that suffered the same fate as their sister ship on the planet.

If you look at the uniforms of the Bava film, you can see similarities to Prometheus as far as the lined colored seams and high collars:

[craggy]

Yeah, I can't watch those kinds of documentaries either.

yes, I choose not to. The fact that there was something close to that in a film that wasn't explicitly labelled as such (Prometheus/Alien prequel doesn't necessarily equal "graphic caesarean" to me, although it sort of made a bit of sense) made it all the more uncomfortable for me.

[Steve Sensible]

Prometheus/Alien prequel doesn't necessarily equal "graphic caesarean" to me, although it sort of made a bit of sense

I think it's well in-keeping with the sub-text of Alien. The imagery in that film was always sexual, from the giant vagina-esque portals in the side of the crashed ship, to the phallic Alien head. And the abortion scene follows logically on from the "rape" and impregnation of Kane.

[steveuk]

Here's Giger's original design for the space pyramid cut from Alien:


Very close to the pyramid/temple structure in Prometheus.

Honestly, I think the original idea was that the space jockies' ship landed on the planet and discovered the pyramid and was infected just like Nostromo would be. Not that the jockey created the xenomorph. However, since they were both designed by Giger - alien and space jockey plus ship - the visual association led to a narrative connection. Especially when they got rid of the pyramidal urn for the eggs from the original script.

I'm reading an early draft right now, as I said. The original idea is that the Jockey went through the same thing that the Nostromo (here called the Snark) crew go through after they find the same pyramid.

The origin of the creature, the Alien, is unclear but there's nothing to suggest its a bioweapon. That's clearly something that's come along later, long after the first movie. Probably credit should go to James Cameron, since that's Burk's motivation for trying to get a sample of the life form back to earth.

[Johnny Henning]

There are a lot of interesting twists to it. I think Obannon suggested that at one time, the jockey was a bomber pilot and the alien eggs were his bombs - somewhat reminiscent of Dark Star on that score. However, I don't know when that was. Originally, I believe Alien started as a monster movie set entirely aboard a damaged World War 2 bomber on the way home from a mission over Japan. After he had seen how big one of those planes actually was, he thought it would make a great setting for a "haunted house" movie.

[steveuk]

There are a lot of interesting twists to it. I think Obannon suggested that at one time, the jockey was a bomber pilot and the alien eggs were his bombs - somewhat reminiscent of Dark Star on that score. However, I don't know when that was. Originally, I believe Alien started as a monster movie set entirely aboard a damaged World War 2 bomber on the way home from a mission over Japan. After he had seen how big one of those planes actually was, he thought it would make a great setting for a "haunted house" movie.

Possibly this stuff cycles around in people, in the draft I'm reading the Jockey's ship has only one urn/egg, from which emerged the creature that killed the jockey.

The rest of the urns are in a vault under the pyramid. There's no bomb bay scene. The pyramid appears to be a religious structure.

[steveuk]

I've finished reading the early 'Alien' screenplay, it was really interesting. The two big differences are the pyramid, which was dropped and combined with the Jockey's ship in the movie, and the lack of a conspiracy element, which was what Ash's addition brought to the film.

The film version is a little neater and the dialogue is often better and more naturalistic, but most of the film is in the draft I read, even details like the distress beacon being a warning, the motion trackers, flame throwers, electric prods, the air vents, the cat (and it's "boo" scare moment), and the final fight in the lifeboat while the engines are ticking their way down to self destruct.

The main impression I got was that this was written to be quite a bit cheaper than the movie we ended up with. The planet they land on doesn't require full spacesuits for example, just face masks. Whatever anyone else did, or didn't do, for the movie it's clear that Ridley Scott put the whole thing on a bigger canvas.

[Johnny Henning]

Possibly this stuff cycles around in people, in the draft I'm reading the Jockey's ship has only one urn/egg, from which emerged the creature that killed the jockey.

The rest of the urns are in a vault under the pyramid. There's no bomb bay scene. The pyramid appears to be a religious structure.

Another odd element of Prometheus is

Spoiler

why put the most urns right next to the ship's bridge? Seems like the worst place to store bioweapons on a ship.

Another thing I didn't really understand were the holograms. It just seemed randomly convenient that they would exist to show what happened to the crew - but to not really show enough for the humans to understand it - or how to pilot the vessel. I suppose it was a sort of disaster data recorder for the incident, but it just seemed like it was there to deliver information the crew would have no way of figuring out. Personally, I think we could've done without it and still told the story.

I do have a ton of questions about the engineers.

Spoiler

Naturally, Shaw's big question is in there - why did they create mankind and why did they want to destroy us as well?

However, even more -

1. Why did the pictograms depict the location of a weapons facility?

2. They said the engineers had been dead for 2,000 years, probably. A) since the holograms were meant to show what happened, why hadn't another group of engineers already come to the location to clean it up? Second, it seems like they would have been in contact with other engineers, so why hadn't another group taken over the Earth destruction mission?

3. Why was the xenomorph that pops out of the Engineer at the end is exactly like the one depicted in the mural in the first room they find?

4. What were the Engineers running from that they would run into a room full of the killer urns?

5. The head in the mural room does not look like an Engineer. It looks like a bald human. The engineers have humanoid but distinctly different features. Why is that? Are we supposed to be some sort of perfected version of them? Does the head and the mural of the Xenomorph in the same room mean that humans are supposed to become xenomorphs? That that is our "intended" purpose?

6. Why did the surviving engineer first mistake Weyland and the others as engineers? Why did he kneel to him even though it was obvious they were not anything like the others? Are there engineers, possibly in the ruling class, who are exactly like humans and are these just the soldier drones who obey their orders? The Nephelim or Angels rather than the gods themselves.

7. David obviously seems to know that the Engineers intend to destroy the human race on Earth. How and why does he behave the way he does without revealing this knowledge? To kill Weyland? Weyland would be dead in a day regardless.

8. Finally, was the Engineer sacrificed at the beginning being punished like Prometheus (or Socrates) or did he willingly go to his death to achieve this purpose? Again, you could see this as some sort of pointless exercise in eternal punishment on the part of "the gods."

[Noel Luperon]

Just came fro watching Avengers and Prometheus (productive little evening it was, eh?).

Prometheus. Yes, the movie is open ended and leaves a lot of questions unanswered. It's in apparent contradiction or revision to things happening in Alien and successive films and not everything clicks and makes sense.

At the end, we're left with a fantastic sci-fi film that is visually impressive, greatly entertaining and headier than Alien (fright-fest) or Aliens (an awesome action adventure romp with no lofty ambitions).

This left me with a sense of satisfaction in watching that I lately only got from sci-fi flicks like Inception, Moon and Source Code. Lindelof and Scott aimed high and, while not delivering perhaps a landmark film with the same weight or cinematic importance than Alien, the film is great, it asks and tries to answer many great questions and leaves you (well, me anyways) wanting more, much more.

Lindelof coming onboard apparently ensures a fun time, lots of implications but maybe not a great payoff. That seems to be his trademark. I'm OK with that. Like discussed in the recent LOST thread, what we get, even if it's not neatly wrapped in a bow by the end with every single question answered, is a great story, memorable and justifying of its investment.

Like Lindelof said, they could have very well simply stuck with Alien lore and, who knows? It could have been even better received. From what little interviews I dared watched, avoiding spoilers, Lindelof dared take it someplace else. As a fan of Alien and Aliens (nothing else exists) I am glad he did and eagerly look forward to more of the story. Ridley doesn't have the age to wait another 30 years, so I hope he's happy enough to take another stab at it. Lindelof, per his Twitter feed, is very much aware of the criticism to his writing, I hope he finds it in him to try again.

Now, as per some of the questions on the movie:

Spoiler

1. The zoom scenes to the DNA strands during the Engineer's sacrifice in the opening scene, I believe indicate clearly the dude's killing himself and letting the change take its course in this new planet, to come up with another species. Mankind.

2. Elizabeth Shaw, at the end, suggests the theory that the Engineers first made man and then changed their mind and now want to kill them. So, perhaps the whole "invitation to a weapons factory" angle has a fair explanation once the change of mind is explained later on.

3. Weyland's presence I think was warranted because he has very little to live and wants to survive. He can't stick around for the 2 years (?) of the return trip and possible solutions. That, I believe, is what David referred to when interrogated by Vickers, when telling her Weyland had ordered him to "try harder". The old man funded this whole thing to save himself and he needed that salvation quickly. That leads to David experimenting with Shaw's beloved, to see what happens.

[scot]

Other than suffering through some clunky dialogue and inappropriate score, I rather enjoyed most of the film. The only thing I really hated was how easily the captain decided to sacrifice himself, crew and ship to take out the escaping "engineer". I get why he did it, I just hated how the whole scene played out. The bet's still on? Really? Raise your hands fellas...we're gonna die. Yahoo! I was just totally disconnected from caring at that point. It seemed like a thrill ride more than an impending loss of life. After an over-the-top c-section and bizarre suicide run, all previous intellectual considerations were stunted. But I still really wanted to love this movie.

At the heart of Prometheus, there is a struggle between preservation and sacrifice. The characters seemed to alternate between nurture and destruction throughout the film, making you wonder what their true motivations really were. When you remove yourself from caring about the characters, their actions start to make sense as just objects serving the greater statement of the film more than as actual people. The film emulated 2001 in many ways; one being the lack of character depth. In both 2001 and Prometheus, the most fascinating and memorable characters are not human at all. At times, in both films, the characters seem to only serve as a vehicle to drive home different angles of the main theme. The difference in 2001 is that the cold mannerisms are used to contrast those spare emotions once they were revealed.

Where Prometheus falls short is in its excecution. Ridley is well known for putting style over substance and even his more appreciated films are flawed (alien, and especially blade runner). His process is more organic then most: overlooking minor points to find unusual resonance can sometimes create a more powerful result. Case in point: Rugter Hauer's improvised monologue at the end of Blade Runner summed up the film's theme perfectly. Unfortunately, the actors in Prometheus did not bring enough nuance to this film or bring enough of their own vision to help it fully breath as other of Ridley's actors had done. Despite the homages to 2001, the characters in Prometheus not only came accross as cold, but unfeeling as well.

The brilliance of 2001, in my mind, came in the rescue scene when Bowman took the pod out to save his crewmate. Until this point, Bowman was a flatline: going through the motions, routine running around the cabin, playing chess to pass the time, etc. Once he recognised a life in jeapordy, he took action to respect that life. This created a great contrast to his earlier actions and stressed his compassion and humanity in that moment. In 2001, there was a clear distinction between humanity and inhumanity, where in Prometheus, all life seemed equally pointless. Maybe that was the point Ridley was trying to make. Perhaps, in the end, all that matters is the unyielding persuit of further questions (and to that end he did quite well).

In the end, despite a few cringes, the movie made me think about a few things seriously: the contrasts between preservation and destruction primarily. So, in that respect, it was a worthwhile experience. I really wanted to love Prometheus as there is so much going for it. Ultimately, I have to say it is largely a disappointment due to the few mistakes that took me away from caring about it's splendor. Not since Sunshine have I seen such a magnificent failure. Hands up in the air as Prometheus crashes and burns. Well done, Ridley Scott.

[Johnny Henning]

One more thing - what was the deal with the

Spoiler

"let's jab an electric needle into the dead giant's severed head and see if we can trick its nervous system into thinking it's alive."

What sort of screwed up sadist would even think of doing that, and, on top of it, no one even hesitated or asked, you know, what the hell? Exactly what will this achieve?

Oh, and big surprise that that one almost literally blew up in their faces.

[Steve Sensible]

3. Weyland's presence I think was warranted because he has very little to live and wants to survive.

But what makes him think the engineers would have the answer to his survival? Just because they made us, we're never given any suggestion that they'd be able to go "Zap! Now you'll live forever."

[steveuk]

<SNIP>

5. The head in the mural room does not look like an Engineer. It looks like a bald human. The engineers have humanoid but distinctly different features. Why is that? Are we supposed to be some sort of perfected version of them? Does the head and the mural of the Xenomorph in the same room mean that humans are supposed to become xenomorphs? That that is our "intended" purpose?

<SNIP>

The basic design is Michelangelo's David. Ridley knows, and loves, classical art. Three different actors play the Engineers and then there's the sculpture, so there's some variation.
 Prometheusx3.jpg   32.54K   0 downloads

But what makes him think the engineers would have the answer to his survival? Just because they made us, we're never given any suggestion that they'd be able to go "Zap! Now you'll live forever."

They'd be more likely to know that anyone else and what does he have to lose? A trillion dollars? He's dying, he doesn't care about money.

I get why he goes, I think the film fails to utilize him properly, but I understand his motivation.

[Sarah Horrocks]

I loved it. It was raw uncut Giger.

Spoiler

It got back to the whole reason I give a crap about the Alien series. That final scene with the proto-facehugger and engineer was pure Giger.

I felt like the whole film was Ridley going through all of the crap that has been allowed to overgrow the core horror of the series, and just being like "NO not that". The movie was like watching someone work through a thought problem. Some characters don't change. Some change in complete opposite ways. All toward the function of testing out ideas for their usefullness to the horror.

Movie was pure sex, murder(fratricide, deicide), gender, creation. So fantastic. And it's fascinating that the Rapace is zooming out to find answers that are LITERALLY right behind her, as humans repeat the same acts as their creators.

But what makes him think the engineers would have the answer to his survival? Just because they made us, we're never given any suggestion that they'd be able to go "Zap! Now you'll live forever."

Weyland would have no way of knowing that. All he knows is that he's meeting his creator. Weyland's journey mirrors Roy Batty's journey in Blade Runner. The search for the creator leading in disapointment. Eventually leading in the death of the creator.

Weyland's daughter is there to watch her father die. David is there to watch Weyland, his creator die. Rapace is nearly killed by her spawn, kills her creator. Her spawn spends three movies trying to kill it's creators as the perfect manifestation of death. David is the father of the xenomorphs in some way. His hatred for mankind and the engineers seems to inspire them.

The engineers engineer their own death(role of humans as the bridge to xenomorphs, the perfect god killer) and destruction so they can be reborn? I think this engineer group was a death cult.

Edited by Sarah Velez, 11 June 2012 - 10:44 AM.