180 replies to this topic

[al-x]

Hello:

OK, so we have covered American TV, now how about movies?

It has been said that the 70's was the best decade as far as
quality American movies: The Godfather 1 and 2, Butch and
Sundance, The Sting, MASH, etc.

Quality movies are still with us though, but it is different. The pacing
of movies are a little faster.

It seems that those blockbuster movies are about big explosions
and stunts and less on plot and storytelling, as if the special effects
will make up for everything.

I still like Hollywood and even the indies though as not every film has
to be groundbreaking and dramatic.


So, what are your thoughts on modern American films?


Al...

[Dave Wallace]

Wow. What a broad question. Some modern American films are great, others are terrible.

[Mike]

[garjones]

If we're looking at changes since the 70s I'd ask what represents an 'American' movie?

At the blockbuster level I think we have global films arranged by offices in Los Angeles. You can't even say funded when major studios are owned by Sony. Is Harry Potter an American film? Even Iron Man 3 is being part funded by China and filmed there. So I think Hollywood has changed dramatically.

The 70s did have some outstanding and groundbreaking films, it also saw a lot of cinemas close before the multiplex emerged in the 80s. So it may have been more of a critical than commercial success.

[Robert B]

Yeah, I agree with both Dave and Gareth

1. There are always lots of good and bad films, regardless of country.

2. It's very difficult to say what is "American" or "British" or anything these days, when it's more like this global collaborative process.

[The Lorcan Nagle]

If we're looking at changes since the 70s I'd ask what represents an 'American' movie?

At the blockbuster level I think we have global films arranged by offices in Los Angeles. You can't even say funded when major studios are owned by Sony. Is Harry Potter an American film? Even Iron Man 3 is being part funded by China and filmed there. So I think Hollywood has changed dramatically.

The 70s did have some outstanding and groundbreaking films, it also saw a lot of cinemas close before the multiplex emerged in the 80s. So it may have been more of a critical than commercial success.

I was coming to say much the same thing. Take Star Wars and Aliens for example. Written and directed by Americans, largely funded by them too. But filmed in the UK (And Tunisia for Star Wars), with largely British cast and crew. A sizeable chunk of Blade Runner's budget was put up by Sir Run Run Shaw, a Hong Kong native, and British citizen. Does that make it a 70% US/UK, 30% Hong Kong production?

Ultimately there's thousands of amazing American movies. And there's also Camel Spiders or 2-headed Shark Attack. And there's thousands of amazing movies from other countries as well. And hundreds of thousands of shitty ones. Sturgeon's law doesn't discriminate by nationality.

[garjones]

Prometheus just struck me the same as I just came back from the cinema.

He may have had to pledge allegiance for business reasons but it was funded by an Australian, written by Americans, directed by a Brit, starring a South African, Swede and an Irish/German hybrid. Filmed in Iceland.

[Johnny Henning]

Today's American movies are mostly delivery systems. Same for a lot of entertainment. Not just American movies, though, but also foreign movies that hit in the US - like the recent The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel. Or even The King's Speech.

I recently heard this on an old recording of Mark Maron's WTF podcast where they were talking about how Robin Williams just isn't very funny anymore but he still is great at getting laughs. Mark or his guest described him as a "delivery system" - it's not what he says that's funny but the way he says it gets the audience to laugh.

The Avengers is a great delivery system. It truly and authentically delivered the thrills, laughs, whatever to the audience for that kind of movie - same for Transformers. Other films like Battleship did not deliver.

However the same is true of many successful independent American movies today. Little Miss Sunshine was the perfect delivery system for the Sundance crowd.

Now, what they are delivering is what interests me. In most cases, I believe it is enjoyment. I think that audiences mostly go into theaters to basically be pleasantly distracted for a couple of hours - not to "have their minds turned off" or anything which is actually not pleasant for most people despite the success of Michael Bay, but to feel engaged with the story being told and to get a sense of progress from the set-ups and payoffs of the plot.

The only problem or disappointment I have with most of these movies is that as well crafted they can be and as good as the performances are, I generally don't carry the movies with me after I leave the theater. Often, I have no need to see the movie again.

At the same time, I think this was true of a lot of American movies like Casablanca and Gone With The Wind. I can watch those movies whenever they come up and get caught up in them, but it not like I really want to see them again or rent them. Same for Avengers or Men-In-Black or The Dark Knight. They are great fun movies, but they aren't movies that will stick with me the same as less successful but more intriguing movies might.

It may be that I tend to be more attracted to messier, less crafted movies and stories, but it could be they just deliver something to me personally.

[Arjan Dirkse]

I don't really like movies anymore. Avengers was somewhat enjoyable, I love Cohen bros movies and things written by Charlie Kaufman...but overall...not my cup of tea.

[Robert B]

I don't like movies as much as I used to, say 5-10 years ago, but I think that's a product of getting older. I'm also not as into comics or sports as I was a few years ago, either.

[Dave Wallace]

Saying "I don't like movies" just feels weird to me. I just don't think I could dismiss an entire medium like that.

[Arjan Dirkse]

Saying "I don't like movies" just feels weird to me. I just don't think I could dismiss an entire medium like that.

Well, I'm very good at dismissing.

I know, it was kind of a dumb statement. Let's just say I don't like many movies. 99 % of the stuff that is being made is boorish, stupid, offensive cookie cutter crap. The last time I really enjoyed a new movie was probably with Lost in Translation.

edit: No it was the Departed. I loved that movie.

Edited by Arjan Dirkse, 09 June 2012 - 06:12 PM.

[Robert B]

Saying "I don't like movies" just feels weird to me. I just don't think I could dismiss an entire medium like that.

Not to sound like an old-timer when I'm not really, but for me it's like, once you get over 35 and have a kid you are suddenly very aware of how much of your life is passing by while you're sitting and watching some dumb thing for two+ hours. And priorites shift, interests shift. I still love good movies but have much less tolerance for mediocre ones.

As I said the same is also true of sports, comics, video games, for me. Maybe this is that "growing up" thing that I've heard so much about.

[Ben the Obiwomble]

Well, I'm very good at dismissing.

I know, it was kind of a dumb statement. Let's just say I don't like many movies. 99 % of the stuff that is being made is boorish, stupid, offensive cookie cutter crap. The last time I really enjoyed a new movie was probably with Lost in Translation.

edit: No it was the Departed. I loved that movie.

In that case you ought to consider checking out Infernal Affairs

[Dave Wallace]

Not to sound like an old-timer when I'm not really, but for me it's like, once you get over 35 and have a kid you are suddenly very aware of how much of your life is passing by while you're sitting and watching some dumb thing for two+ hours. And priorites shift, interests shift. I still love good movies but have much less tolerance for mediocre ones.

As I said the same is also true of sports, comics, video games, for me. Maybe this is that "growing up" thing that I've heard so much about.

I'm in my early thirties and have a young kid, so I think we're in similar places. And I agree that as you grow up, time becomes more precious and it's more disappointing when a movie or TV show lets you down. But like you say, there are still good films out there to love, and I'd never dream of giving movies up altogether, because I still get a huge thrill from a really well-made one.

[Nicholas Taggart]

In terms of what I like in film I would say this is definitely one of the weakest periods in the history of mainstream American cinema. I say mainstream American cinema because maybe there is some stuff being made by people I have never heard of that is as good as anything ever made. I don't feel like that is the case but I can't rule out the possibility.


There are some great mainstream American films being made though.

[Jim Ohara]

Not to sound like an old-timer when I'm not really, but for me it's like, once you get over 35 and have a kid you are suddenly very aware of how much of your life is passing by while you're sitting and watching some dumb thing for two+ hours. And priorites shift, interests shift. I still love good movies but have much less tolerance for mediocre ones.

As I said the same is also true of sports, comics, video games, for me. Maybe this is that "growing up" thing that I've heard so much about.

That's where I am. I don't have the time. Used to be I'd watch a movie every week (if not cinema then at home). Now maybe once every few weeks or so. If not for Fantasy Football I'd be in the same place with sports. So far this year I've watched 10 movies - The Avengers, The Grey, Harry Potter 8, Fast Five, Green Lantern, Dragon Tattoo and I rewatched the Marvel movies as a build up to Avengers.

Instead I find myself watching much more TV. I think the advent of on-demand is changing life in ways we haven't fully documented yet. TV quality is infinitely superior to what it was 10 years ago. There's maybe 20 shows that are more satisfying entertainment experiences than any movie of the last decade (except maybe 4-5 big movies). And now you can watch those shows, any episode at any time, without buying the DVD collection. Certainly with the combination of Netflix, On-Demand, Amazon Prime, DVR and online you're basically setting your own viewing schedule much like having access to the best library in the world.

I think the financial ramifications and business model changes for the entertainment industry haven't hit yet - I don't know if they don't get the new model or are able to wrap their heads around it. It's like the internet when it started - people said every company would need a website to do business in the future and most folks thought that was nonsense. The internet was just yellow pages advert that only 3% of people would access. Roll on 20 years and if you're not online you don't exist. Technology has now caught up for entertainment - streaming video is finally here. Business models should be fundamentally changing, but the leaders can't figure out how. But give it another 20 years or so and it's all going to be different.

Incidentally, I think the comic book industry also haven't figured this out yet. Then again, comics technology is only a couple of years old, and these things always take time (plus a visionary from outside the industry - like Amazon did with retail).

[Arjan Dirkse]

maybe there is some stuff being made by people I have never heard of that is as good as anything ever made. I don't feel like that is the case but I can't rule out the possibility.

Yeah I agree with that...It could be that there is some undiscovered genius somewhere in the world who is making brilliant movies but whose work is just not being noticed. There's a cinema in this town that only shows alternative, "arty" movies. I went there a few times in the past but mostly it was just boring, overly pretentious crap. "Arty" does not mean great art, unfortunately.

[Robert B]

I'm in my early thirties and have a young kid, so I think we're in similar places. And I agree that as you grow up, time becomes more precious and it's more disappointing when a movie or TV show lets you down. But like you say, there are still good films out there to love, and I'd never dream of giving movies up altogether, because I still get a huge thrill from a really well-made one.

Oh I still watch more movies that the average person, probably. I hit the theaters almost weekly and watch maybe one more a week at home (mostly documentaries). But in the early 00s I used to watch like 5 movies a week, I played video games almost every night, and I'd buy a nice stack of comics every Wednesday, and all of that is gone.

But I think American cinema is in a pretty good place (rather than American we'll call it what it is: English-language cinema). This year alone we're getting or have gotten new movies by Wes Anderson, Paul Thomas Anderson, Quentin Tarantino, Steven Spielberg, Peter Jackson, Wilt Stillman, Judd Apatow, Richard Linklater, Michael Winterbottom, Todd Solondz, Steven Soderbergh, David Cronenberg, Joss Whdeon, the Pixar guys, Woody Allen, Christopher Nolan, Kathryn Bigelow, Baz Luhrmann, John Hillcoat, Andrew Dominik, and a lot more. That's a pretty strong list of English-language directors with new material in one year, and it's only a partial list.

Edited by Robert B, 09 June 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[Dave Wallace]

Oh I still watch more movies that the average person, probably. I hit the theaters almost weekly and watch maybe one more a week at home (mostly documentaries). But in the early 00s I used to watch like 5 movies a week, I played video games almost every night, and I'd buy a nice stack of comics every Wednesday, and all of that is gone.

We really are in the same place!

I don't get much of a chance to go to the cinema these days, but LoveFilm lets me watch 2-3 movies a week, plus I keep up with a couple of TV series at a time and manage to get the odd bit of gaming in. But it's all on a much smaller scale than it used to be.

But I think American cinema is in a pretty good place (rather than American we'll call it what it is: English-language cinema). This year alone we're getting or have gotten new movies by Wes Anderson, Paul Thomas Anderson, Quentin Tarantino, Steven Spielberg, Peter Jackson, Wilt Stillman, Judd Apatow, Richard Linklater, Michael Winterbottom, Todd Solondz, Steven Soderbergh, David Cronenberg, Joss Whdeon, the Pixar guys, Woody Allen, Christopher Nolan, Kathryn Bigelow, Baz Luhrmann, John Hillcoat, Andrew Dominik, and a lot more. That's a pretty strong list of English-language directors with new material in one year, and it's only a partial list.

Yeah, there might be a huge amount of dross out there, but there are plenty of great filmmakers still putting stuff out too.