99 replies to this topic

[David Meadows]

I never get bored of this kind of stuff.

I know what you mean, I used to devour all that stuff. Some of the theories are amazing (look up, for example, "the constant of ninevah" for some truely mind-boggling use of numbers). And exploring them leads you into studying all kinds of areas such as history, maths, astronomy...

...the problem being, that as you follow up your studies into history, maths, and astronomy, you can see more and more holes in the theories.

That doesn't stop them being fascinating, though.

[Arjan Dirkse]

Depends on what you need for proof. Certainly the gods of the Sumerians - who needed to eat and behaved like people do - also correspond to the gods of the Egyptians, Greeks and Indo-Europeans from the Celtic to the Hindu. More tenuously, some archaeologists have noted similarities between Sumerian gods and Native American gods - but that is very controversial.

So, perhaps the earliest myths are about this ancient civilization.

However, if the civilization was almost completely destroyed over ten thousand years ago, even if it was worldwide, there could be no trace of its culture on the future generations who emerged after a Dark Age five thousand or so years long.

I don't see mythology as proof of anything other than human fantasy, and a regular occurence of certain archetypes. But I agree, it can't be ruled out that such a culture would leave traces in legends or mythology.

I find it odd we'd have no obvious artifacts of a worldwide culture - or say, continent wide culture - that was destroyed over ten thousand years ago, when there's thousands of cave paintings and very primitive artifacts from very early ages, like a hundred thousand years ago even.

Edited by Arjan Dirkse, 18 June 2012 - 06:44 PM.

[Johnny Henning]

That's a good point, but there is no direct connection between one and the other. If there was this world-wide prehistoric civilization, then there would have had to have been some sort of serious catastrophe to wipe it out to such an extent - BUT that catastrophe would not have affected remnants of primitive cultures, like cave paintings hidden deep away from the elements and early tools and artifacts that had already long been buried by sediment over time. Whatever the catastrophe could have been, they were already protected from it - and there is always the possibility that we haven't properly dated these artifacts and they arose during the dark age between civilizations.

[Jim Ohara]

I read once that if every human alive in North America right now died, and if in millions of years people dug up the ground looking for evidence, they'd find a quarter of a skeleton. That's the proportional total of the dinosaur bones we've dug up - and from that quarter skeleton we know so much. But imagine what we don't know.

That said, I just can't buy that there was an ancient civilization that disappeared with all their contraptions. Humanity doesn't seem to work that way. Knowledge spreads. I do think people were alot smarter than we think they were (stands to reason really). My brother has a whole theory about stone circles that I have to write up for him some day.

[craggy]

So, Jim, you're saying dinosaurs had iPads? But how would they use them with their wee spindly arms?!

[steveuk]

True, we probably could conceivably build the pyramid using modern construction techniques, but I'd like to see someone actually detail how it would be done even with cranes and engines. People assume that if we can build skyscrapers then we could build the pyramid, but the constituent parts of the skyscrapers are many times lighter than the blocks of stone that had to be precisely cut for all the inner construction of the great pyramids.

Essentially, we could conceivably build the devices that could move that weight of stonework, but we don't really have the equipment strong enough for the larger 100-ton and 400-ton blocks used in various temples and pyramids around the world - and it still would not be easy for us to do so as precisely as the original builders did apparently without even using levers and pulleys since those should not have been known at the time.

The thing about the "ancients" (as they're sometimes called) is that they could be pretty practical about things.

For example, the biggest blocks in the pyramids weigh about 80 tonnes! How did they lift 80 tonnes???

Answer; they didn't. The biggest blocks are at the bottom of the structure.

I take my hat off to them for actually moving them from the quarry to the building site, but they weren't fools. Well, except when they were;



But everyone makes mistakes sometimes.

So, Jim, you're saying dinosaurs had iPads? But how would they use them with their wee spindly arms?!

They had Siri?

[craggy]

I wonder if the ancient Egyptians ever ran out of the right coloured blocks half-way up?

[Ulf Imwiehe]

I've always liked the idea that von Däniken's ancient astronauts (and/or civilizations) were time travelers from the future stranded in the timestream.

[Arjan Dirkse]

I wonder if the ancient Egyptians ever ran out of the right coloured blocks half-way up?

I think I once heard or read somewhere the Egyptian pyramids were originally covered in polished white plaster which must have looked rather stunning in the desert sun.

[steveuk]

I think I once heard or read somewhere the Egyptian pyramids were originally covered in polished white plaster which must have looked rather stunning in the desert sun.

Some of them were clad in limestone, there's a bit at the top of the Great Pyramid, much weathered by the intervening centuries of course;


http://1.bp.blogspot...+226+-+good.jpg

[Lucian Von Dooom]

I've always liked the idea that von Däniken's ancient astronauts (and/or civilizations) were time travelers from the future stranded in the timestream.

And that the great world monuments are them saying "Hi!". *waves back

I think I once heard or read somewhere the Egyptian pyramids were originally covered in polished white plaster which must have looked rather stunning in the desert sun.

Yep. The outer layers were stolen by Arabs.

[craggy]

yeah, they're nice now, but we can't imagine how cool they were when they were new. still, goes to show what happens when you leave stuff in a desert for a few thousand years.

[steveuk]

And that the great world monuments are them saying "Hi!". *waves back
Yep. The outer layers were stolen by Arabs.

Egyptians don't actually refer to themselves as Arabs, they see their heritage as a separate thing from the rest of the region.

They did use the pyramids etc. as huge, convenient quarries though. Still they're not alone in that. Hadrian's Wall, the Great Wall of China, Roman, Greek and any other, stone buildings throughout history have been recycled once they fall into disuse.

We do it today, Architectural Salvage Yards are a good, strong business.

[Jim Ohara]

I've always liked the idea that von Däniken's ancient astronauts (and/or civilizations) were time travelers from the future stranded in the timestream.

I wonder how humanity is going to deal with the reality that time travel space travel aren't ever going to happen. My guess is we're all just going to simulate a better reality rather than live in this current one.

[Johnny Henning]

I've always liked the idea that von Däniken's ancient astronauts (and/or civilizations) were time travelers from the future stranded in the timestream.

It would be an interesting idea that the ancient civilization was wiped out by a stray experiment in time travel that transported everyone over ten thousand years into the future. Then they all reappear on Earth instantly on December 21, 2012, and war ensues as the modern world is suddenly assaulted by an advanced superhuman race of giants from many thousands of years ago who appear to be something like the gods, angels, demons and monsters of our myths and folk tales.

[Ulf Imwiehe]

I wonder how humanity is going to deal with the reality that time travel space travel aren't ever going to happen. My guess is we're all just going to simulate a better reality rather than live in this current one.

I tend to agree, Jim. We've always been looking for... something greater than our mundane existence. Something wonderful. If we can't attain it in the flesh why not create a simulacrum? I'm a big believer in human creativity and its hunger for transcendence by any means.

[Lucian Von Dooom]

Egyptians don't actually refer to themselves as Arabs, they see their heritage as a separate thing from the rest of the region.

They did use the pyramids etc. as huge, convenient quarries though. Still they're not alone in that. Hadrian's Wall, the Great Wall of China, Roman, Greek and any other, stone buildings throughout history have been recycled once they fall into disuse.

We do it today, Architectural Salvage Yard are a good, strong business.

I only said Arabs because that's what came up in a Google search.

While the bulk of the Pyramid's core was constructed of 4,000- to 40,000-pound blocks of soft limestone, the outer layer of the Pyramid was made of a beautifully bright, protective layer of polished stone. These outer "casing stones" are missing today because about 600 years ago they were stolen by Arabs, (This accounts for the very worn appearance of the Pyramid today, since the inner limestone blocks are not immune to attack by the elements-wind, rain, and sandstrom.) This protective covering was made up of 100-inch-thick, 20-ton block of hard, white limestone, similar to marble but superior in hardness and in durability against the elements.

LINK

[Johnny Henning]

I tend to agree, Jim. We've always been looking for... something greater than our mundane existence. Something wonderful. If we can't attain it in the flesh why not create a simulacrum? I'm a big believer in human creativity and its hunger for transcendence by any means.

Maybe we're already living in the Omega Point simulacrum, but it just doesn't have enough processing power to do any better than what we have now.

At least not until the "planned upgrade" of the Second Coming/Singularity, but as anyone in IT will tell you, those never go as scheduled or planned.

And maybe all these unexplained or curious artifacts are left over from the previous version.

[Lucian Von Dooom]

I tend to agree, Jim. We've always been looking for... something greater than our mundane existence. Something wonderful. If we can't attain it in the flesh why not create a simulacrum? I'm a big believer in human creativity and its hunger for transcendence by any means.

I wouldn't say that I'm looking for something greater than this existence. I'm pretty well fascincated with the one I have. The world is pretty miraculous place. I'm just looking for clues to the past and answers to questions like why we're here and how'd we get here.

Maybe we're already living in the Omega Point simulacrum, but it just doesn't have enough processing power to do any better than what we have now.

At least not until the "planned upgrade" of the Second Coming/Singularity.

Have you read The Holographic Universe? That shit is cray!

Crazy interesting.

[Jim Ohara]

Have you read The Holographic Universe? That shit is cray!

Crazy interesting.

I think reality being a simulation (like a computer program) is the most likely scenario for creation. It answers a bunch of questions and avoids the whole 'where's God' question. We're not actually made of anything after all - matter is just waves vibrating very fast.