199 replies to this topic

[Scott Wilkinson]

How likely is it that when the vault door is closed and sealed Xaro just sighs, turns around and opens the other secret door . . . that only he and the architect knew about before he had him killed . . . where I an architect working for one of these nut jobs . . . "Nope, no secret passages or anything you'll have to kill me to keep hidden" . . . "but I want people to think there are, so I'll kill you anyways" . . . "D'oh!".

[The Lorcan Nagle]

It would be hillarious if Xaro and Doreah escape and go after Danerys, like Boba Fett in the Star Wars comics.

[steveuk]

It would be hillarious if Xaro and Doreah escape and go after Danerys, like Boba Fett in the Star Wars comics.

I would read that.

To be honest Xaro was a bad guy but Doreah was just unlucky. She didn't deserve to get locked in there, what happened to Daenerys had nothing to do with her. I'm assuming this is another reminder to the audience that she's a sympathetic character, not a saint.

[lj cunningham]

I would read that.

To be honest Xaro was a bad guy but Doreah was just unlucky. She didn't deserve to get locked in there, what happened to Daenerys had nothing to do with her. I'm assuming this is another reminder to the audience that she's a sympathetic character, not a saint.

In Daenerys' mind, Doreah betrayed her, plain and simple. And it sure looks that way when they find her in bed with Xaro. I always forget what's been established in the books versus the series, but betrayal is a big thing with Daenarys

Spoiler

as she's been told she will be betrayed three times: once for blood, once for gold, and once for love.

Edited by lj cunningham, 08 June 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[steveuk]

In Daenerys' mind, Doreah betrayed her, plain and simple. And it sure looks that way when they find her in bed with Xaro. I always forget what's been established in the books versus the series, but betrayal is a big thing with Daenarys

Spoiler

as she's been told she will be betrayed three times: once for blood, once for gold, and once for love.

I get that, she's still wrong.

What exactly is an ex-sex slave supposed to do when her liberator leaves and the new King says, "She aint coming back. Wanna be my main squeeze instead?"

Really, Dany's actions there are terrible.

[Chris D]

Really, Dany's actions there are terrible.

Eh, they were harsh, but that's part of being a monarch in this world. Disloyalty gets punished harshly. And it's not like Doreah waited at all to see if Dany would come back. She was only gone for a couple of hours before Doreah jumped in bed with Xaro.

[craggy]

Doreah was her name? Yeah, she needs to come back.

[steveuk]

Eh, they were harsh, but that's part of being a monarch in this world. Disloyalty gets punished harshly. And it's not like Doreah waited at all to see if Dany would come back. She was only gone for a couple of hours before Doreah jumped in bed with Xaro.

Again, disloyal to whom? Someone who's gone and never coming back because the new King just told you they were never coming back?

And by the way the way the person who isn't coming back is the only one who says you're not a slave and the King (as Joffrey is fond of reminding us) can do what he likes in a feudal society.

So you tell him you've got a headache and see where that head ends up? On a spike outside the palace is my guess.

[Chris D]

Again, disloyal to whom? Someone who's gone and never coming back because the new King just told you they were never coming back?

And again, Dany couldn't have been gone for very long for people to believe she was, in fact, never coming back. I'm not saying I blame the girl for jumping into bed with Xaro, but I don't really blame Dany for leaving her to die either. She's a self-proclaimed queen trying to build a force to fight a war with, so she has to think about how the others who didn't immediately get in to be with this other self appointed King (literarly or figuratively) the moment she was gone for a few hours will react to her leniency (or lack thereof) to those who would abandon her at the first sign of trouble.

Sometimes Kings and Queens have to be dicks. The good ones just know when it's the appropriate time for mercy vs. punishment. Overall, I'm fairly indifferent to the way this particular situation was handled.

[lj cunningham]

And again, Dany couldn't have been gone for very long for people to believe she was, in fact, never coming back. I'm not saying I blame the girl for jumping into bed with Xaro, but I don't really blame Dany for leaving her to die either. She's a self-proclaimed queen trying to build a force to fight a war with, so she has to think about how the others who didn't immediately get in to be with this other self appointed King (literarly or figuratively) the moment she was gone for a few hours will react to her leniency (or lack thereof) to those who would abandon her at the first sign of trouble.

Sometimes Kings and Queens have to be dicks. The good ones just know when it's the appropriate time for mercy vs. punishment. Overall, I'm fairly indifferent to the way this particular situation was handled.

And Dany has shown mercy several times, and its come back to bite her in the ass (case in point with the healer she saved/Drogo's wound). She's still very young and learning as she goes.

As for Doreah, the first thing I thought when we saw them in bed was she helped Xaro kidnap the dragons. Who's to say this is the first time they've slept together. While we have no proof of that, the fact that she's sleeping with the King right after the dragons are kidnapped and her Khaleesi heads off to save them feels connected in some way.

[steveuk]

And again, Dany couldn't have been gone for very long for people to believe she was, in fact, never coming back. I'm not saying I blame the girl for jumping into bed with Xaro, but I don't really blame Dany for leaving her to die either. She's a self-proclaimed queen trying to build a force to fight a war with, so she has to think about how the others who didn't immediately get in to be with this other self appointed King (literarly or figuratively) the moment she was gone for a few hours will react to her leniency (or lack thereof) to those who would abandon her at the first sign of trouble.

Sometimes Kings and Queens have to be dicks. The good ones just know when it's the appropriate time for mercy vs. punishment. Overall, I'm fairly indifferent to the way this particular situation was handled.

If I feel indifferent to something in a TV show like this then I stop watching it.

As for this instance, what should Doreah have done?

And Dany has shown mercy several times, and its come back to bite her in the ass (case in point with the healer she saved/Drogo's wound). She's still very young and learning as she goes.

As for Doreah, the first thing I thought when we saw them in bed was she helped Xaro kidnap the dragons. Who's to say this is the first time they've slept together. While we have no proof of that, the fact that she's sleeping with the King right after the dragons are kidnapped and her Khaleesi heads off to save them feels connected in some way.

And who's to say she did help Xaro? I like Dany too but when she does something like this I don't have to rationalize a justification for her actions.

She was wrong. It's not that difficult to say it.

[craggy]

Doreah should have done the king. Oh wait, she did. C'mon, nearly the entire character's life, the whole reason she arrived, was to be like a hot sex therapist lady, teaching Dany how to make sweet sweet loving with Drogo. Ok, she does seem a bit schemey, but those schemes are likely to involve her pleasuring someone. Even if she thought Dany might have been saveable, she'd probably have found out, and worked out a way to do it, whilst...umm.."doing it".

Also, she was Roxanne McKee. She needs to be on my TV as much as possible, she so cute.

[Chris D]

If I feel indifferent to something in a TV show like this then I stop watching it.

As for this instance, what should Doreah have done?

I'm not indifferent to the show as a whole. All I'm saying is I wouldn't really have minded if Dany showed mercy or if she'd done what she ended up doing. I can see rationale's for both, but as has been pointed out Dany has shown mercy to others before and it's come back to bite her. As for what Doreah should have done...not immediately hopped in to be with Xaro. We don't see any of Dany's other men or women on with Xaro (and king's certainly aren't above having multiple people in bed at the same time).

She was wrong. It's not that difficult to say it.

It's not hard to say, but is it so wrong that not all of us agree with you that it was wrong?

[lj cunningham]

People also make bad decisions or find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's what happened to Doreah and she's paying the price for it. Regardless of Dany's reaction, she made a poor decision and she's reaping her rewards.

As much as we can have sympathy, even if you don't think she was involved with the dragons, she alone from Dany's contingent placed herself with the man behind slaying the 13 and kidnapping the dragons.

Even if she's innocent, she looks guilty as hell. And she has herself to blame for a large part of it.

[Adam Wednesdays]

And who's to say she did help Xaro?

She faked her own death to cover for Xaro's stealing of the dragons (she was the body on the floor when Dany found the dragon's missing). So it's not like she was suddenly left behind, she actively conspired to help Xaro and the warlocks take the dragons.

[Ricardo_C]

The dead handmaiden was Irri, not Doreah. But Daenerys did ask about Doreah, as she was nowhere to be found when the dragons were stolen. Her mysterious absence, combined with how happy she was in Qarth (remember Irri not wanting Dany to dress in the Qartheen manner, while Doreah was all for it), It always came across to me as the writers implying Doreah went rogue and helped Xaro.

Edited by Ricardo_C, 09 June 2012 - 12:44 AM.

[Adam Wednesdays]

The dead handmaiden was Irri, not Doreah.

Oops...

Su-WING and a miss!

[Chris D]

The dead handmaiden was Irri, not Doreah. But Daenerys did ask about Doreah, as she was nowhere to be found when the dragons were stolen. Her mysterious absence, combined with how happy she was in Qarth (remember Irri not wanting Dany to dress in the Qartheen manner, while Doreah was all for it), It always came across to me as the writers implying Doreah went rogue and helped Xaro.

Nice memory, I'd forgotten about that. Though I did wonder where she'd been since the massacre. It definitely does seem to point that she was probably with Xaro in some fashion before Dany went to the House of the Undying. Unfortunately, that story arc was dragged out a big too long for a lot people to remember it, I'm sure. Especially with all the other storylines to follow.

[steveuk]

<SNIP>

It's not hard to say, but is it so wrong that not all of us agree with you that it was wrong?

Anyone can disagree with anyone, what matters are the reasons.

We only get what's in the show, we don't see the Handmaiden (whatever her name is?) do anything to deserve Dany's actions. We don't see her lie, cheat or steal from Dany so supposition about faking her own death or conspiring to steal the dragons are just that, supposition. There's nothing in the show to support it.

Instead we've got a character who's spent her whole life as property, used as a sex toy by powerful men, being murdered because Dany's (justifiably) angry with the latest powerful man to put her in his bed.

I can understand what Dany does it but it's still the wrong thing and, most importantly, its stronger drama because its the wrong thing.

Dany still sees herself as a queen, arbiter of life and death and destined to take that role over millions of people. She's better than other people who have had that role, but she's still not a perfect choice that we should automatically support.

We should worry about her too.

[craggy]

we don't need to worry about her, that's Ser Jorah's job!