67 replies to this topic

[Chris D]

With the 2nd season of the TV series wrapping up, I finally decided (i.e caved in) to read A Dance With Dragons. Probably around 100 pages in, I'm reading on my Kindle so I've no idea, and it's inspired several thoughts. (1) I really wish Martin hadn't broken up books 4 and 5 the way he did. It feels like the whole series has been running in places for too long because of it. I can only imagine how those of you who started reading this years ago must feel. (2) I'm pissed off a bit at the TV show hooking me into reading the books because I'm just now realizing I'm in for a dozen years of waiting for any sort of conclusion. Again, I can only imagine how early adopters must feel (I got a taste of it with the Dark Tower series, but I was late to that party as well so only had about 7 years of waiting for a conclusion). (3) There's almost no way the TV series will have any sort of conclusion whatsoever. That would require like a 10+ season commitment. And the show is pretty damn expensive. And not all the actors are going to want to spend 8 more years dealing with all of this, and it'll be weird having a 20+ year old Arya and Bran running (or being carried) around. Also, they'll be lucky to actually have the book series complete in such a timely fashion. Although maybe Martin would provide them with an outline at that point. Maybe he already has?

As to the book itself, I'm still enjoying it. More so than the 4th book because at least I'm back to reading about characters I want to read about. But I do worry for Jon Snow.

[Scott Wilkinson]

With the 2nd season of the TV series wrapping up, I finally decided (i.e caved in) to read A Dance With Dragons. Probably around 100 pages in, I'm reading on my Kindle so I've no idea, and it's inspired several thoughts. (1) I really wish Martin hadn't broken up books 4 and 5 the way he did. It feels like the whole series has been running in places for too long because of it. I can only imagine how those of you who started reading this years ago must feel. (2) I'm pissed off a bit at the TV show hooking me into reading the books because I'm just now realizing I'm in for a dozen years of waiting for any sort of conclusion. Again, I can only imagine how early adopters must feel (I got a taste of it with the Dark Tower series, but I was late to that party as well so only had about 7 years of waiting for a conclusion). (3) There's almost no way the TV series will have any sort of conclusion whatsoever. That would require like a 10+ season commitment. And the show is pretty damn expensive. And not all the actors are going to want to spend 8 more years dealing with all of this, and it'll be weird having a 20+ year old Arya and Bran running (or being carried) around. Also, they'll be lucky to actually have the book series complete in such a timely fashion. Although maybe Martin would provide them with an outline at that point. Maybe he already has?

As to the book itself, I'm still enjoying it. More so than the 4th book because at least I'm back to reading about characters I want to read about. But I do worry for Jon Snow.

He has . . . maybe that'll be the push Martin needs to finish the books . . . he can't let the TV show get there first . . .

[Chris D]

He has . . . maybe that'll be the push Martin needs to finish the books . . . he can't let the TV show get there first . . .

Well, that's good to hear, at least.

[Jake]

I figured I'd split this into a new thread, as more people will be reading the novels once the season's over. Just want to reiterate the rules: Be careful about what you're spoiling. Don't assume everyone's read as far as you have. Mark your post with what book you're on/done with, then discuss any specifics that could ruin something for someone in spoiler tags. So, if I were going to talk about, say, A Storm of Swords:

Spoiler

I think it's really funny how they tied the direwolf's head onto Robb's shoulders.

Good to go?

[Chris D]

A third of the way through A Dance with Dragons and I'm having some reservations.

Spoiler

Rhaegar's son alive? I feel like that's a bit much. The last thing this series needs is more people joining the fight for the Iron Throne, and do have the newest one be a presumed dead Targaryen just doesn't sit right with me. Especially over halfway through the series. It seems like a cheap twist at this point. I still like the book, it's good fun as usual, but Martin really needs to start pulling in the reigns to get this story under control, instead of constantly adding more and more characters into the mix.

[Ricardo_C]

A third of the way through A Dance with Dragons and I'm having some reservations.

Spoiler

Rhaegar's son alive? I feel like that's a bit much. The last thing this series needs is more people joining the fight for the Iron Throne, and do have the newest one be a presumed dead Targaryen just doesn't sit right with me. Especially over halfway through the series. It seems like a cheap twist at this point. I still like the book, it's good fun as usual, but Martin really needs to start pulling in the reigns to get this story under control, instead of constantly adding more and more characters into the mix.

Spoiler

I really think this Aegon will turn out to be a fake. Some have taken the meaning of "the mummer's dragon" from Danny's visions in the House of the Undying to represent Aegon, the dragon the mummer is bringing forth (Varys, whom we've seen conspiring with Illyrio to support the Targaryens, used to be a mummer), but others tend to go with the more literal meaning: A mummer's dragon is an imitation dragon. Some child they're using as backup now that Viserys is dead, perhaps to help solidfy Daenerys' claim to the throne.

[Jason Hendriks]

Quick question for those who have read the books...

Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark were fostered by Jon Arryn. And before his death Jon Arryn had wanted his son (Robert/ Robin) to be fostered by Stannis Baratheon. Seems a bit strange that men would send then sons away to be raised by another, if it means what it sounds like.

What exactly does fostering entail? And why is it done?

[Peter Singer]

As far as I've collected: Shows a bond of friendship between the two lords, or that two houses have made a pact of whatever kind. Another reason might be to take a hostage and a safeguard against treason (as with Balon Greyjoy and Ned Stark).
Case in point Stannis mentions, that lord Arryn thought his child weak (as seen in the series) and hoped that a hard guiding hand like Stannis might make a man of him yet.
And fostering basically means raising the child to adulthood.

[Jim Ohara]

What exactly does fostering entail? And why is it done?

It's pretty much like boarding school. A way to get kids way from their parents so they grow up quicker and more independent.

[Eduardo]

A third of the way through A Dance with Dragons and I'm having some reservations.

Spoiler

Rhaegar's son alive? I feel like that's a bit much. The last thing this series needs is more people joining the fight for the Iron Throne, and do have the newest one be a presumed dead Targaryen just doesn't sit right with me. Especially over halfway through the series. It seems like a cheap twist at this point. I still like the book, it's good fun as usual, but Martin really needs to start pulling in the reigns to get this story under control, instead of constantly adding more and more characters into the mix.

It is really possible that he actually is... (warning, speculation after finishinh reading ADWD)

Spoiler

A damn Blackfyre, bringing a new, more subtle, Blackfyre Rebellion

Regarding fostering:

http://www.westeros....SSM/Entry/1202/

6. I can understand why Robert Baratheon was sent to be John Arryn's ward -- his parents had died -- but why was Eddard Stark sent as well? Was this an established practice among noble houses? Were Stannis and/or Renly Baratheon sent to be wards with anyone?

Yes, fostering was common among noble houses, both in Westeros and in the real middle ages. Especially for boys. It was considered both a means of education, and a way to cultivate friendships and alliances.

[Martin Smith]

It especially made sense for Ned, who was a second son and thus expected to find something else to do with his life other than hang around Winterfell. Having him sent off to the Eyrie meant he would have been able to meet eligible women or become a knight or what have you. All of which became moot when his brother died and he inherited the engagement to Catelyn. I think there's a lot of Ned's childhood self in Bran, who finds himself in the same situation really.

[Scott Wilkinson]

Just having a though on who will be the 1000th Commander of the Nights Watch . . . depending on how far into the book you've read spoilers . . .

Spoiler

Given how a Dance of Dragons ends it looks as though we'll get a 999th in the Winds of Winter.
Given the lifespan of the last 2 (I doubt Jon is permanently dead) we should see 1000 before the series ends.
I think Jorah Mormont will redeem his honour and join the Night's Watch as Jeor asked Samwell when he died and then become the 1000th Commander . . .
Samwell seems as though his story is leading to overlap with Dany and Jorah.
Just a thought . . . may be a load of shite . . .

[Mike]

Scott's spoiler contains significant spoilers right up to the end of the fifth book.

[Ricardo_C]

Just having a though on who will be the 1000th Commander of the Nights Watch . . . depending on how far into the book you've read spoilers . . .

Spoiler

Given how a Dance of Dragons ends it looks as though we'll get a 999th in the Winds of Winter.
Given the lifespan of the last 2 (I doubt Jon is permanently dead) we should see 1000 before the series ends.
I think Jorah Mormont will redeem his honour and join the Night's Watch as Jeor asked Samwell when he died and then become the 1000th Commander . . .
Samwell seems as though his story is leading to overlap with Dany and Jorah.
Just a thought . . . may be a load of shite . . .

Spoiler

Your post kinda spoils that the Old Bear won't survive season 3

I think Jaime will the 1000th Lord Commander, assuming he survives his upcoming encounter with Lady Stoneheart. He's paid for what he did to Bran (taking his ability to walk and ride) by losing the thing that makes him who he is, his sword hand. Given the existential crisis he undergoes in ADWD, and his feelings about his place in the Kingsguard, I wouldn't be surprised to see him trade in his white cloak for a black one.

Edited by Ricardo_C, 21 June 2012 - 06:02 PM.

[Jim Ohara]

Given that the walkers are making their move right now I don't know if there's going to be a Nights Watch by the end. Either the walkers win and the kingdom is doomed or they're defeated by a bunch of dragons and the threat is gone (and the wall falls). I guess they could end the story with people on the wall waiting for next time they come, some sort of cyclical thing, but that would also suggest that Westeros is never going to progress technologically (one of the weaknesses in the story is that this great land has been essentially the same for thousands of years - no scientists or mathematicians among them).

[Chris D]

Regarding the Night's Watch (spoilers from nearly all the way through ADWD, I only have a couple chapters left)

Spoiler

I don't see how they continue to exist after what they did to Jon. They're heavily outnumbered by wildlings, whom only barely trusted Jon but have zero love for the rest of the Night's Watch. They're completely screwed in every direction. I suppose the Queen's Men might be able to help the Watch hold the Wall, but I just don't see how the Watch rebounds from all of this. On a side note, I'm still incredibly pissed off about what happened to Jon. It wasn't a surprise since Melisandre had been flat out saying it would happen all book long, but I'm really sick of watching all the Starks get brutalized and killed off.

I'll probably finish the book tomorrow at some point. I've no doubt it will be an unsatisfying ending. At this point, I find myself wishing I could read a book all about Rhaegar, though. His story is the one I find I'm most interested in right now.

[Adam Wednesdays]

I'll probably finish the book tomorrow at some point. I've no doubt it will be an unsatisfying ending. At this point, I find myself wishing I could read a book all about Rhaegar, though. His story is the one I find I'm most interested in right now.

I seem to have enjoyed "A Dance With Dragons" more than a lot of people, but I have to admit that there were definitely times when the past history seemed more interesting than what was happening in the present. Not just what really happened with Rhaegar, but things like the Aerys/Tywin relationship and The Adventures of Barristan Selmy as well.

[Chris D]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed A Dance With Dragons, but I still couldn't help but feel it was largely treading water. I just didn't end up feeling like any of the storylines made many significant advances (considering the length of the book).

Plus

Spoiler

the whole storyline with Quentyn Martel ultimately seemed like wasted space. I wasn't too keen on even more POV characters being thrown in, and then to have his just up and die before I really gave a crap what happened to him or his crew...well, I think the book didn't really need to bother showcasing him at all. Also, I found the final two chapters to be significant letdowns after Jon's final chapter. Dany's was just boring, and the epilogue...well it was okay, but Pycell and Kevin Lannister dying by Varys still wasn't as big a deal to be as what happened to Jon Snow. They were minor characters that barely registered with me throughout the series.

Basically, I still have a good time reading these books, but unlike with the first 3, I don't find myself dying to know what comes next. I just want the series to hurry up and end so I can get closure.

[David Meadows]

(one of the weaknesses in the story is that this great land has been essentially the same for thousands of years - no scientists or mathematicians among them).

That's a 'weakness' in basically all fictional fantasy lands. It's an accepted genre trope.

[Peter Singer]

Basically, I still have a good time reading these books, but unlike with the first 3, I don't find myself dying to know what comes next. I just want the series to hurry up and end so I can get closure.