189 replies to this topic

[craggy]

no, Sansa, as usual, did the stupid thing.

[Ogul]

the guys at the wall who fought the blue zombie still weren't convinced that White Walkers were still around. They killed a zombie and still doubted the existence of White Walkers. Suggests a pretty clear distinction between the two.

I figured they were just in denial, and figured he was just a normal human who was "to extreme" or something. People in zombie movies are usually in denial at first.

no, Sansa, as usual, did the stupid thing.

"That's So Sansa!"

[Ricardo_C]

Yeah, the White Walkers are another species altogether, they raise the dead as cannon fodder, basically.

If they stick to the book for this section next season, there'll be plenty of detail coming regarding exactly how they differ from the wights.

Re: Sansa. She put her chips on a Stannis victory, which at the time didn't seem so unlikely: The Hound was going AWOL, Joffrey was cowering in the castle, and the barbarians were at the gates, as it were. I read the books, and I still kept wishing this would end up being one of the re-imagined storylines. Sansa and the Hound would have been a neat twist on the beauty and the beast trope.

Refusing Littlefinger? Giving that Petyr all but had Pedobear standing next to him while he talked to Sansa, I think remaining a Lannister captive might not be a bad idea. They can't kill her while Robb's winning the war, she's too valuable an asset.

[Chris D]

I wasn't overly impressed by the look of the White Walker, it's just personal taste really but it looked cartoonish and cheap to me.

I felt similarly about it. No big deal, but yeah the look didn't quite work for me.

[Jason Hendriks]

I felt similarly about it. No big deal, but yeah the look didn't quite work for me.

Unless I'm mistaken, in the books the Others (aka White Walkers) are less monstrous in appearance and more like Tolkien's Elves, albeit white-skinned and with blue eyes. I really wish they would have went with that look instead of the fairy tale monsters.

[steveuk]

Yeah, the White Walkers are another species altogether, they raise the dead as cannon fodder, basically.

If they stick to the book for this section next season, there'll be plenty of detail coming regarding exactly how they differ from the wights.

Re: Sansa. She put her chips on a Stannis victory, which at the time didn't seem so unlikely: The Hound was going AWOL, Joffrey was cowering in the castle, and the barbarians were at the gates, as it were. I read the books, and I still kept wishing this would end up being one of the re-imagined storylines. Sansa and the Hound would have been a neat twist on the beauty and the beast trope.

Refusing Littlefinger? Giving that Petyr all but had Pedobear standing next to him while he talked to Sansa, I think remaining a Lannister captive might not be a bad idea. They can't kill her while Robb's winning the war, she's too valuable an asset.

And to be fair to Sansa, the Dog is a self-admitted homicidal sadist. Ok, so he's a deeply wounded and tragic figure poised for redemption but... would you bet your life on that?

Frying pan vs fire?

[Ogul]

He was always protective of her though. I would trust him at least until we could get near someone that wasn't a Lannister.

[The Lorcan Nagle]

Frying pan vs fire?

So to speak

[craggy]

And to be fair to Sansa, the Dog is a self-admitted homicidal sadist. Ok, so he's a deeply wounded and tragic figure poised for redemption but... would you bet your life on that?

Frying pan vs fire?

well if she went with the Dog, she'd be at his mercy. She's staying in Kings Landing...at Joffrey's mercy. Now we've seen that dragons exist, but Joffrey having any redeeming qualities? That would be magic.

[Jim Ohara]

[Sarah Horrocks]

Anyone else actually really like the character design for the White Walkers? I thought it was really cool to finally see them fully. And I like their zombie horses. I am really interested to hear what their culture/motovations are. I don't think it's a straight forward as "they're evil". Obviously they are in opposition to the Red God. But we've yet to really see the Red God's version of the White Walkers. I guess that THING that killed Renly. I dunno, I don't really trust the Red God.

Anyone who has read the books really really disappointed with Bran's arc this season? All of the cool Bran stuff from the book has been pretty much obliterated. I have no idea what they're doing with the character now.

[Jim Ohara]

I really like the character design of the white walkers too Sarah. The guy on the horse looked completely bad assed, and I'm glad they moved away from just being zombies or people with blue eyes. I agree that we don't really know what their motivation is - the fact that they let Sam live is incredibly interesting. They're clearly smart, which means there's a reason why they woke up and a reason they're on the march. Are they natures defense against dragons, or are dragons the natural defense against them? They reemerged first in the story, and history wise they were driven back long before the dragons disappeared (8000 years compared to just a few hundred years) so while I know they're all connected (along with magic suddenly becoming strong) I'm not sure how it's all connected. I'm sure there's a reason why most of these questions remain unanswered.

And I don't trust the red god either.

The books are the song of fire and ice. I always figured that alluded to Jon and Dany, with most of us thinking they hook up at some point either as friends, long lost siblings or lovers. And that Jon would ride a dragon some day. Their song is this story, for their partnership changed the world for millenia to come. But maybe they become avatars for a red god and a white god instead, and in turn become bitter enemies.

It really feels like there's no way this gets resolved in 2 more books.

[The Lorcan Nagle]

I don't mind the changes to Bran's story so far. A lot of it was going to be very hard to do as it's largely dreams and internal musings on his part, and the dreams are quite repetitive. Having him come into his own with the responsibility of Lord of Winterfell was interesting to see this year, and that the Reeds have beeen added to next series is a good sign that we're going to get his character beats, just out of order.

Given the amount of rearranging they've done to keep Robb and Jamie in this year I'm sure we're going to get a lot of the important stuff that got dropped a little further down the line.

Now, I've only ready books 1 and 2 so far, and have 3 and 4 on my shelf. Should I read them now, or wait until after their series air?

[Jim Ohara]

Book 3 is so great that you should read it. Besides, the chances of getting spoiled about stuff from the upcoming season are large enough that you should find out now. I watched the first season without reading the book, and watched the second season after having read all the books, and I didn't find my satisfaction diminished as a result.

[Paul F]

They won't be finished adapting Book 3 until 2014, so you might as well go ahead and read it.

[lj cunningham]

I really like the character design of the white walkers too Sarah. The guy on the horse looked completely bad assed, and I'm glad they moved away from just being zombies or people with blue eyes. I agree that we don't really know what their motivation is - the fact that they let Sam live is incredibly interesting. They're clearly smart, which means there's a reason why they woke up and a reason they're on the march. Are they natures defense against dragons, or are dragons the natural defense against them? They reemerged first in the story, and history wise they were driven back long before the dragons disappeared (8000 years compared to just a few hundred years) so while I know they're all connected (along with magic suddenly becoming strong) I'm not sure how it's all connected. I'm sure there's a reason why most of these questions remain unanswered.

And I don't trust the red god either.

But are white walkers any more trustworthy? Personally, I think of them (Ice and Fire) as two extremes, the two ends of the pole that wreck havoc wherever they go. They may be natural opposites, but it doesn't mean either is worthy of worship or that one is any better than the other.

Mellisandre speaks of the two as the only gods, but we all know that this isn't true. There are many other entities or forces out there as well...maybe just not as powerful right now as the walkers or the red god are in this time of resurgent magic. But your idea of them cancelling each other out is an interesting one.

The books are the song of fire and ice. I always figured that alluded to Jon and Dany, with most of us thinking they hook up at some point either as friends, long lost siblings or lovers. And that Jon would ride a dragon some day. Their song is this story, for their partnership changed the world for millenia to come. But maybe they become avatars for a red god and a white god instead, and in turn become bitter enemies.

It really feels like there's no way this gets resolved in 2 more books.

Its hard for me as well to think that this will end in two books. Or how is could have ended with Martin's original intent to wrap it up in six books. We're constantly reminded that long winters always follow long summers and this has been one of the longest summers in recorded history. We know winter fully arrives in book six, but spring returns in book seven. As far as I know, Martin has said he won't be putting in time jumps, so how long is this winter really going to last?

[Scott Wilkinson]

We know winter fully arrives in book six, but spring returns in book seven. As far as I know, Martin has said he won't be putting in time jumps, so how long is this winter really going to last?

Okay, this is just a guess . . . what if the long winters are brought on by the White Walkers and their defeat would also shorten the winter?
He may be doing all of this build up to the threat north of the wall and it may end pretty quickly . . .

[Sarah Horrocks]

The books are the song of fire and ice. I always figured that alluded to Jon and Dany, with most of us thinking they hook up at some point either as friends, long lost siblings or lovers. And that Jon would ride a dragon some day. Their song is this story, for their partnership changed the world for millenia to come. But maybe they become avatars for a red god and a white god instead, and in turn become bitter enemies.

I always feel bad for Melisandre, because despite her prophecies, she seems to be right about what she's looking for, but it seems clear that she's looking in the wrong place. Dany is the avatar for her god that she's looking for I think.

I feel like Dany and Jon wouldn't per se be bitter enemies--so much as good people on the opposite sides of a conflict doing what they think is best.

I don't mind the changes to Bran's story so far. A lot of it was going to be very hard to do as it's largely dreams and internal musings on his part, and the dreams are quite repetitive. Having him come into his own with the responsibility of Lord of Winterfell was interesting to see this year, and that the Reeds have beeen added to next series is a good sign that we're going to get his character beats, just out of order.

Yeah I just saw today that we're getting the Reeds after all which is hugely reassuring. The thing is, there's a connection between Bran's dreams and reality that is explicit in the books, that has yet to even be really shown in the show. Really a lot of the stuff with the Wolves has been severely underplayed on the show. We didn't really see Ghost at all this season.

Book 3 is so great that you should read it. Besides, the chances of getting spoiled about stuff from the upcoming season are large enough that you should find out now. I watched the first season without reading the book, and watched the second season after having read all the books, and I didn't find my satisfaction diminished as a result.

Yeah it's a different kind of watching the show after you've read the books, but no less enjoyable. The show is also a liiiiittttle bit different in places than the books, and there are things in the books that make much more sense the way they are depicted in the show. Like some of the changes to the House of the Undying make that whole section much more understandable in terms of motivations for everyone involved.

But are white walkers any more trustworthy? Personally, I think of them (Ice and Fire) as two extremes, the two ends of the pole that wreck havoc wherever they go. They may be natural opposites, but it doesn't mean either is worthy of worship or that one is any better than the other.

Mellisandre speaks of the two as the only gods, but we all know that this isn't true. There are many other entities or forces out there as well...maybe just not as powerful right now as the walkers or the red god are in this time of resurgent magic. But your idea of them cancelling each other out is an interesting one.



Its hard for me as well to think that this will end in two books. Or how is could have ended with Martin's original intent to wrap it up in six books. We're constantly reminded that long winters always follow long summers and this has been one of the longest summers in recorded history. We know winter fully arrives in book six, but spring returns in book seven. As far as I know, Martin has said he won't be putting in time jumps, so how long is this winter really going to last?

Clearly if there is a long winter like has been built up, it would effectively end most of the population south of the wall. So one would assume there's some sort of act of heroism that saves the day in book six. And then book seven is sort the conclusion after the storm.

[Chris D]

Anyone else actually really like the character design for the White Walkers? I thought it was really cool to finally see them fully. And I like their zombie horses. I am really interested to hear what their culture/motovations are. I don't think it's a straight forward as "they're evil". Obviously they are in opposition to the Red God. But we've yet to really see the Red God's version of the White Walkers. I guess that THING that killed Renly. I dunno, I don't really trust the Red God.

I liked the zombie horse, but for whatever reason the White Walker looked a bit silly to me. I also never really saw the White Walkers as being in opposition to the Red God. Mostly because it seems that the Red God has had little to no place in Westeros until very recently. Whereas the White Walkers are ancient monsters that have more to do with the Old Gods of the North. Certainly their is contrast and connection since the Red God is new and steeped in fire and the White Walkers old and connected to the ice. But I'd say the Old Gods are more direct opposition to the Red God. The White Walkers don't seem to be friendly no matter who you worship. It's not like they're depicted as friends of the Men of the Night's Watch, after all.

[Scott Wilkinson]

Nice interview with Natalia in Thronecast about her nude scene with Theon . . . they'd told her she would only be shot from the waist up and so on the day they decided to do full frontal . . . if they'd told her that when she asked she'd have stopped shaving and gotten a right good minge going . . .