69 replies to this topic

[Jim Ohara]

We've been having a discussion about the characters in Game of Thrones so I thought it'd be fun to see who you want on the Throne if you were part of the Westeros kingdom. I'd like to know why people choose who they do in the poll, so please let me know your thought processes.

For the sake of spoilers, we should keep this discussion up till the current TV series only. There's a couple of dead characters on the list so this is more a philosophical discussion than anything. Hopefully we can avoid mentioning items that come up later in the books.

I picked Tywin as the best for the Kingdom because I think Westeros needs a smart tough bastard in charge, and his only crime that I can see was denying Tyrion from marrying an unsuitable girl.

I picked Daenerys as the worst as I think she has no idea what she's doing an more and more she's the Veruca Salt of the story.

[David Chapman]

Your poll is missing Joffrey Baratheon in both categories.

[Jim Ohara]

As I thought no-one would pick him to be the king they want and everyone would pick him as the king they don't want. It's a less interesting poll if you include the panto villain (or his mother).

[Chris D]

Well, who I'd like to see win is probably different from who I think would suit the throne best. Tywin or Ned Stark would probably be best for Westeros, Tywin is probably the most suited to rule RIGHT NOW. And while Ned was a good guy would probably could have made a good king he is long dead I never once considered him for the throne. Who I'd like to see win in the end would be either Dany, Robb Stark, and Jon Snow. Because while everyone else is off fighting wars, I feel like Dany, Robb, and Jon are on longer journeys about what it means to become a true leader. And then there is Arya, who is probably my favorite character, but she's far too much of a loner and a badass. She's got no interest in ruling or being a lady of any sort. She wants to fight. Put her in the Kingsguard or something like that. So I voted Jon Snow just because I like the idea of a bastard on the throne.

Worst for the throne? I picked Theon, because he's far too desperate to please and fit in than he is with anything else.

Edited by Chris D, 13 May 2012 - 05:17 PM.

[steveuk]

<SNIP>

Worst for the throne? I picked Theon, because he's far too desperate to please and fit in than he is with anything else.

We agree on that at least.

Theon has no centre, he wants to be a leader but he's easiiy lead. There would be some power behind his throne sooner or later.

Ned's still the best choice for king, he had the moral high ground but also the compassion and he hit people if he needed to.

Of the current crew probably Tyrion. He's been kicked around enough to understand what its like to be the underdog, but he's comfortable with power. A little too comfortable at times, what with all his pent up resentments.

Bronn would make an interesting Hand.

[Mike]

Ned's problem is the same one that killed him; he's too bound to the concept of the right thing, and on some level he expected everyone else to obey and do the honourable thing as well.

You have to be a bit of a bastard to be an effective King. Ned wasn't enough of one.

[steveuk]

Ned's problem is the same one that killed him; he's too bound to the concept of the right thing, and on some level he expected everyone else to obey and do the honourable thing as well.

You have to be a bit of a bastard to be an effective King. Ned wasn't enough of one.

You have to be the man who'll swing the sword, which he was.

I agree he wasn't much good at the politics though. I doubt the North was full of saints, in fact from the Lords we've seen following Robb it's clear there's some real problems amongst them but Ned must've been able to work with them for a long time.

Ned's real downfall seems to have been the timing. When the succession was being engineered and court intrigue was at its height he was totally overwhelmed and died because of it.

Had he been Hand, or King, at a less volatile time he'd have fared a lot better.

[Mike]

You have to be the man who'll swing the sword, which he was.

Not the same thing at all; Eddard swung the sword because he prized honour and duty above all. He would have been a bad choice for King for exactly that reason. It's part of why he never wanted to be Hand in the first place.

[Jim Ohara]

Ned was great in Winterfell as he had absolute power and no-one to question him. It was a simple job being Lord. If he were king there would be continual games to try and take the throne away from him. In theory he could do an excellent job, in practice he doesn't have the mettle to do what needs done. That was clear when he offered Cersi an out rather than giving Robert the news directly and letting him decide what to do with her. I also think the fact that he'd never gone to Kings Landing in the 9 years before Roberts visit was also an indicator that he wouldn't be a good King.

[craggy]

I'd love to see Arya sitting on the Iron Throne, telling people how it is, and opening up a can of "pointy-end" when they didn't listen.

I think Jon Snow, or Gendry should be King though. Jon is being groomed to lead the Watch, and if we're to believe the warnings of impending doom, those guys might be the only ones who can keep Westeros safe, and everyone south of the Wall bickering amongst themselves is only weakening the world's chances of survival. Gendry, just cause he's good at making hats and stuff, but I voted Jon because he's a bit more handy with a blade, and Ned taught him well. Westeros needs a Bastard on the throne, instead of a double-bastard like they currently have.

[steveuk]

I am disturbed by the support for unethical leadership in Westeros.

And neither Jon nor especially Gendry are ready for leadership. Nor is Arya.

She'd make a great Hand though.

[craggy]

oh, I wasn't saying to put them there yet...I forsee it taking some time to actually win the Game Of Thrones. I'd not be surprised if we were to see a few more bums on the metal seat before alls said and done, but don't imagine many will stay there for long.

[Chris D]

oh, I wasn't saying to put them there yet...I forsee it taking some time to actually win the Game Of Thrones.

Yeah, it's like I said. I see stories like Jon's and Dany's about the journey to become leaders. They aren't ready yet. If I were to choose who is the most suited right now (and still alive, because it's kind of pointless to want deadmen to win...they've already lost), I'd still go with Tywin. Because no one respects the Imp (even though he deserves respect), Littlefinger is too devious. Varys is a scary eunuch, Jamie is the Kingslayer. Sansa would be a fine queen, but only via marriage to a good king. Arya is awesome, but wants to fight, not rule. Plus, she's like 12. Not ready for rule. She make a great counsel member to someone like Robb or Jon, eventually. Stannis is too harsh and unlikable. And Robb is still too green.

So yeah, if we're going off that list by who is actually ready to lead and not already dead. Tywin takes it by a landslide in my opinion.

[Jim Ohara]

I think Jon Snow, or Gendry should be King though. Jon is being groomed to lead the Watch, and if we're to believe the warnings of impending doom, those guys might be the only ones who can keep Westeros safe, and everyone south of the Wall bickering amongst themselves is only weakening the world's chances of survival. Gendry, just cause he's good at making hats and stuff, but I voted Jon because he's a bit more handy with a blade, and Ned taught him well. Westeros needs a Bastard on the throne, instead of a double-bastard like they currently have.

Book spoiler

Spoiler

Jon would end up like Ceaser if his watch leadership is anything to go by.

I think there's a danger of projecting people working out their flaws eventually, whereas I think most people are who they are from a young age. For the record story wise I'm hoping Gendry and Sansa marry and end up on the Throne. Partly based on it being the best reason why those characters exist in the story.

[Adam Wednesdays]

You have to be the man who'll swing the sword, which he was.

I agree he wasn't much good at the politics though. I doubt the North was full of saints, in fact from the Lords we've seen following Robb it's clear there's some real problems amongst them but Ned must've been able to work with them for a long time.

Ned's real downfall seems to have been the timing. When the succession was being engineered and court intrigue was at its height he was totally overwhelmed and died because of it.

Had he been Hand, or King, at a less volatile time he'd have fared a lot better.

Ned's problem came down to a lot more than just timing though, didn't they? He knew exactly what kind of person Cersei Lannister was, and yet he told her that he was going to give her husband news that would result in not only her own death but also her brother/lover's and children's. Yes, it's very admirable that he didn't want the death of children on his conscience, but it's not like it took a lot of fore site to see how that one was going to turn out.

Ned had a big blind spot where it came to honor and duty. Being king doesn't always give you those options. This is a man who saw absolutely no issue with heaping scorn and disdain on Jaime Lannister for killing Aerys and to rant and rave about how the Targaeryan children were killed at the end of Robert's rebellion... but that kind of raises the question of what exactly did he think was going to happen if he and Robert won their little civil war? They both broke their vows and unseated the rightful king and killed the crown prince, and never would have been safe as long as there were Targaeryan heirs around for any upstart lord to hitch their banners to and challenge their legitimacy in the name of the rightful dynasty.

And as for ruling the North well, he seems to have been able to do that just fine, but the North is hardly the whole of the Seven Kingdoms. It's a homogenous whole as opposed to a bunch of different lands held together by force; there's no real rival to challenge the Starks, whereas Robert has to deal with plenty of other powerful families who must be placated or put down when they start getting that itch for more power. And on top of that, any northern lord challenging the Starks would have to contend not just with Ned's loyal banners, but with the wrath of his best friend Robert Baratheon and the whole might of the Seven Kingdoms coming down on their heads.. Robert may have been an awful king, but I'm sure the Targaryans and the Greyjoys would be the first to tell you he excelled at ass-whomping.

[steveuk]

<SNIP>

And as for ruling the North well, he seems to have been able to do that just fine, but the North is hardly the whole of the Seven Kingdoms. It's a homogenous whole as opposed to a bunch of different lands held together by force; there's no real rival to challenge the Starks, whereas Robert has to deal with plenty of other powerful families who must be placated or put down when they start getting that itch for more power. And on top of that, any northern lord challenging the Starks would have to contend not just with Ned's loyal banners, but with the wrath of his best friend Robert Baratheon and the whole might of the Seven Kingdoms coming down on their heads.. Robert may have been an awful king, but I'm sure the Targaryans and the Greyjoys would be the first to tell you he excelled at ass-whomping.

I think its fair to say that the friendship between Robert and Ned will have helped Ned deal with the Northern Lords, but they did have to be dealt with.

Rob has had to prove himself to them in no uncertain terms, they are not easy or pliant people.

And Ned had Robert's support in the South too, and it was effective. If Ned had replaced Jon Arryn a few years earlier, if Cersei and Jamie hadn't feared discovery so much at that moment, if Robert hadn't taken on that boar while drunk...

Ned could've handled it differently but it was bad timing that he had to handle it at all. Even in King's Landing this was no ordinary situation.

[jakebilbao1]

i pick daenerys to be the one on the iron throne and the one to suck at being there.

it would be pointless to have her on the story if she can't get to westeros and try.

i'm up to book five but i still feel that two more books is too short a story for this epic. hope george rr martin extends it to fifteen.:-) LOL i wish.

[craggy]

either the questions changed, or my brain was stupid. I thought the 2nd one was "Who should be the ruler?" (as in, not who you wanted, but who would be best for everyone). In retrospect the actual 2nd question is a bit better, but I'm going to have to think on it for a while before deleting and re-entering my vote.

[Christian U]

Ned could have pulled it off, if he'd taken the throne directly after the mad king's death. It was hinted that Robert might have let him take it, wasn't it? It would probably have been better for both of them, Ned would have been able to deal with the duties, and Robert could have supported him where court intrigue and the like was concerned. Of course, Ned would have hated it all, but I think he would have made an amazing king. Maybe he would even have learned to deal with court intrigues and the like over time... as it was, he'd been secluded in the North for a long time and was thrown into a festering shark pit*.



More generally, I think we have to discern between what we think makes a good leader. Are we talking about somebody who is good at keeping the throne, or who is good for the people? With many of the characters, those skills are mutually exclusive.

Tywin, for example, would be successful, no doubt about it, and stay in power for a long time. But he would not be good for the people; we have been shown that he has no moral scruples whatsoever, and the Lannisters in general seem quite unhindered by such concerns. Seems like money is their credo, more or less. The only exception is Tyrion.



Speaking of which: Much as I love all the Starks, I think there is only one choice for who would be the best king, and that's Tyrion. He can lie and manipulate with the best of them, he's a bit of a bastard, really, but in the end, he does have moral principles, he cares about what is best for the people, and he shows empathy for a great many different people, regardless of their station in life.

[Christian U]

Aren't we actually down to just two people really fighting for the throne now, by the way? Robb isn't interested, Renley's dead, so the situation is basically just Joffrey sitting on the throne and Stannis coming to take it away from him.

Not that I'm not fully expecting things to change, but there's nobody else actively going for the throne now, is there? The only other person who actually wants it, Danaerys, isn't in the game yet.