192 replies to this topic

[Chris D]

I'm sure he or she will encounter them in the end.

Probably, but at the same time I don't think Marvel needs to have the attitude that every single movie they make has to be a part of the same universe and connect up in someway. Eventually that will just get to difficult to manage. Right now they've got a pretty good set-up with Cap, Iron Man, and Thor solo movies with the potential of adding a Hulk or Black Widow franchise. Adding more solo franchises that are also meant to tie into Avengers in someway seems like too much.

But if it is just some solo character not currently introduced but meant to tie-in to the Avengers in someway, then Ant-Man probably makes the most sense.

As for how to make Dr. Strange fit into the current Marvel Movie Universe...just make him a guy who, for some reason, has knowledge of the super advanced "science" aka magic of places like Asgard. Doesn't seem like it's that big of a stretch. I feel like people are overthinking it right now. If you get a good creative team and cast involved I'm sure it could work just fine however they decide to do it.

[Jacowboy (Jonathan)]

I still think a Strange movie could, not only work, but be really really cool... Like a break out of the usual "magic" mold we've seen in movies... And not to sound like a broken record, but the Night/Day Watch movies are a good template to start with... Even the Constantine movie had a lot of bits that could fit very well in a Doc Strange movie.

As for the character they'll introduce... I don't know... Strange would be a good fit, but it would depend on where and how he makes his appearance. Maybe they've got Daredevil's rights back... or the Punisher's... Those two would be good candidates to re-introduce.

Edit: Oh wait, maybe it's Iron Fist... He could tie in with the Mandarin story, if they go with it...

Edited by Jacowboy (Jonathan), 29 May 2012 - 10:16 PM.

[Rory Abel]

It's not the budget that's the problem. It's the cohesion of the universe. Like I said, how do you fit a guy who can magic anything into a very science based world? The movies have very deliberately been placed in a pseudo-reality with hand wavey science behind everything (arc reactors, armor freezing up in the cold, etc). Thor is strong and controls the weather but that's about as far as he goes. Dr Strange pulls magic out his ass in most of his stories, or he magics beams that clash with other magic beams. To fit with the Marvel world you'd essentially have to make Dormammu an alien from another galaxy/reality/dimension but even then he's just going to be another Voldemort type. And isn't that what they're planning for Thanos?

What does any of that have to do with Strange flying with magic not being impressive because we've seen Harry Potter zoom around on his broom?

[Jim Ohara]

What does any of that have to do with Strange flying with magic not being impressive because we've seen Harry Potter zoom around on his broom?

For magic to sort of work in this Marvel movieverse I think it needs to be on a Constantine or Prestige level, not Sorcerers Apprentice or Harry Potter. Trouble is that Constantine had rather crappy magic really - he'd be mostly useless in a fight with an invading alien army. The tension came from the characters themselves in their gritty setting. Which worked well in their settings, but if Marvel replicated that you have a very different movieverse from the last 6 movies and the next planned 4 movies. While I know some folks think there's no need to connect all the universes together, I think that's deliberately what Marvel are doing so why create a new property if it's not connected?

Whereas if Strange can magic dragons and blow stuff up with his mind then why bother ever calling Black Widow or Hawkeye if the world is in danger? It's the same reason why Strange normally doesn't work in regular Marvel books as part of another team - they always invent some BS excuse why he doesn't magic away the problem. The ultimate universe did a good job of leveling out the power levels somewhat (except the X Men, who were a bit too powerful).

It's a bit stupid debating a character when it's not even confirmed that he's in the movie yet. I don't think he'd work, you do. And that's great - I don't see why it needs to be another internet debate.

[Rory Abel]

For magic to sort of work in this Marvel movieverse I think it needs to be on a Constantine or Prestige level, not Sorcerers Apprentice or Harry Potter. Trouble is that Constantine had rather crappy magic really - he'd be mostly useless in a fight with an invading alien army. The tension came from the characters themselves in their gritty setting. Which worked well in their settings, but if Marvel replicated that you have a very different movieverse from the last 6 movies and the next planned 4 movies. While I know some folks think there's no need to connect all the universes together, I think that's deliberately what Marvel are doing so why create a new property if it's not connected?

Whereas if Strange can magic dragons and blow stuff up with his mind then why bother ever calling Black Widow or Hawkeye if the world is in danger? It's the same reason why Strange normally doesn't work in regular Marvel books as part of another team - they always invent some BS excuse why he doesn't magic away the problem. The ultimate universe did a good job of leveling out the power levels somewhat (except the X Men, who were a bit too powerful).

Which takes us back to the original solution I suggested.

It's a bit stupid debating a character when it's not even confirmed that he's in the movie yet. I don't think he'd work, you do. And that's great - I don't see why it needs to be another internet debate.

Then don't take part in the debate. It takes two to do it.

[Chris D]

Maybe they've got Daredevil's rights back... or the Punisher's... Those two would be good candidates to re-introduce.

Fox is apparently working on a Daredevil Born Again movie to be directed by David Slade. But I haven't heard anything about that for many months now. As for the Punisher, studios have tried to get that to work twice in the last 8 years. Much like the Hulk they'd probably do best to eventually reintroduce him in a supporting role and see if audiences latch on to the character before bothering with another solo effort.

Iron Fist was someone I thought of. Or Luke Cage for a more street level thing. I personally think Dr. Strange has more potential. But that's because I think magic is cool and given the right creative team could be really visually impressive.

[Jim Ohara]

Then don't take part in the debate. It takes two to do it.

You betcha! Bye Rory.

Iron Fist was someone I thought of. Or Luke Cage for a more street level thing. I personally think Dr. Strange has more potential. But that's because I think magic is cool and given the right creative team could be really visually impressive.

Of all the options I think Iron Fist would be the one I'd like to see the most - a Cage and Rand odd couple kind of movie could be awesome - so long as they continue to bring the funny. And Iron Fist has gone through his 'ultimization' over the past 10 years thanks to Mr Brubaker.

[Rory Abel]

The Sorcerers apprentice seems like a good way to handle Strange and if I remember right the idea there was that magic was essentially still science (mathematics?).

And it would probably make more sense for him to face an evil sorcerer.

You betcha! Bye Rory.

See that wasn't hard at all. Bye Jim.

Edited by Rory Abel, 30 May 2012 - 12:33 AM.

[Ogul]

They did a good job with Cage and Iron Fist in a recent Avengers episode. They could certainly make a movie of that. The tricky thing though is figuring out how to establish each character, since they have such different backgrounds. Do you try to fit in one origin and not the other? Or both? Or neither?

[craggy]

They did a good job with Cage and Iron Fist in a recent Avengers episode. They could certainly make a movie of that. The tricky thing though is figuring out how to establish each character, since they have such different backgrounds. Do you try to fit in one origin and not the other? Or both? Or neither?

good point.I don't see the two origins working together in the same film. Unless they somehow tied them together. I'm not suggesting that Luke is a martial artist dude as well, or that they eliminate the fantastical elements of Danny's story, but maybe just, using the recent Immortal Iron Fist story as inspiration, there's some technological threat to K'un L'un and the guy behind that is the guy behind the experiments that gave Cage his unbreakable skin, or something?

Other option would be to have a Heroes For Hire film, with Luke, Danny and a few others (Misty, Colleen, umm...someone else) and have maybe a cop or a reporter interviewing them on how they got their powers. "mad science" and "punched a dragon in the heart" being the two somewhat tongue in cheek explanations, I still think both Luke and Danny have plenty of potential for solo films, without immediately teaming them up, but the odd-couple aspect would work well, and we've yet to get a proper buddy action film out of the superhero films so far.

[Johnny Henning]

The Sorcerers apprentice seems like a good way to handle Strange and if I remember right the idea there was that magic was essentially still science (mathematics?).

And it would probably make more sense for him to face an evil sorcerer.

Personally, I think Marvel would be better off blatantly ripping off The Doctor from the Authority - and to a lesser extent The Doctor Strange analogue in Planetary. That's more what I meant as far as "good runs" in comics.

Iron Man was not based on Extremis or The Ultimates, but Ellis/Granov and Millar/Hitch provided a model that could give the studio and filmmakers an idea what an Iron Man movie could be like. Thor was not based on the popular JMS/Ciopel run, but that gave the studio and screenwriters and idea of how a Thor movie could work. Even the Incredible Hulk took some cues from the comics - unsuccessfully in that case, but it wasn't a flop.

As far as I can think, The Doctor in The Authority is the only comic book character that feels like a great template for the literally "widescreen" style of the Marvel Movieverse. And if you think about it, The Doctor sorta already is a Doctor Strange analogue. His title is like "The Sorcerer Supreme" and the Dreamtime is certainly based somewhat on the weird mystical dimension/astral plane that Doctor Strange would always visit on out of body experiences (a definitely dramatic concept I think would work well in movies - the hero has to leave his body behind and hope his enemies don't find it). However, Ellis simplified the magic quite a bit - magic is change. Combine that with the Planetary issue where Snow is sent on a tour of the fabric of the universe and I think you'd have a pretty unique, non-Potter, non-Vertigo view of magic to add to the Marvel movieverse.

[steveuk]

The only trouble with using 'Sorceror's Apprentice' as a role model is that the film didn't connect with people. It's not easy to pick a box office failure as your inspiration.

I don't think Marvel should be trying to find a way to radically re-invent any of their characters though. We know that can work, it did for 'Blade', but Marvel have an enormous cast list to draw from and they don't need to make this hard for themselves.

Let them stick to using characters who translate better to the movie universe they are building and include the ones that help that grow.

If Doctor Strange doesn't fit the films the way he is then leave him in the comics.

[Rory Abel]

The only trouble with using 'Sorceror's Apprentice' as a role model is that the film didn't connect with people. It's not easy to pick a box office failure as your inspiration.

I got the impression SA failed more because it's lead was a nobody and the main supporting actor was Nic Cage rather than people not connecting with the film. The majority of people I know who actually saw it liked it.

Besides it's not like SA did anything revolutionary in terms of story. It's the young apprentice, which we've seen in many films, just set in modern day. I think the idea of Strange just beginning to learn the ropes of magic, super advanced science, while having to face an evil sorcerer, I know he has a couple go to versions of this, would work just fine as a template.

I don't think Marvel should be trying to find a way to radically re-invent any of their characters though. We know that can work, it did for 'Blade', but Marvel have an enormous cast list to draw from and they don't need to make this hard for themselves.

Let them stick to using characters who translate better to the movie universe they are building and include the ones that help that grow.

If Doctor Strange doesn't fit the films the way he is then leave him in the comics.

Is this directed at me or Johnny?

[steveuk]

It's directed at everyone Rory, it's an open discussion.

[Rory Abel]

It's directed at everyone Rory, it's an open discussion.

I was trying to ascertain whether you thought introducing the idea that Strange's magic was super science was a radical re-invention or if that was directed at Johnny's idea. I guess I should have worded the question better.

Edited by Rory Abel, 30 May 2012 - 03:28 PM.

[Johnny Henning]

I'm less offering the idea of a radical reinvention and more on finding a template for the character as is that would provide a framework for a Dr Strange that would fit with Marvel movies.

I'd keep the character's basic story - an arrogant surgeon who loses his skills in an accident and then turns to mysticism in the hopes of healing- but I think The Doctor, which obviously is more than a little based on Stephen Strange, provides more of a template how that sort of character would work with the others. Especially in an Avengers film

[steveuk]

I'm less offering the idea of a radical reinvention and more on finding a template for the character as is that would provide a framework for a Dr Strange that would fit with Marvel movies.

I'd keep the character's basic story - an arrogant surgeon who loses his skills in an accident and then turns to mysticism in the hopes of healing- but I think The Doctor, which obviously is more than a little based on Stephen Strange, provides more of a template how that sort of character would work with the others. Especially in an Avengers film

At the risk of being overly reductive, how?

There are many things I liked about 'The Authority' but The Doctor was one of the areas where the writing got carried away.

[garjones]

As for the character they'll introduce... I don't know... Strange would be a good fit, but it would depend on where and how he makes his appearance. Maybe they've got Daredevil's rights back... or the Punisher's... Those two would be good candidates to re-introduce.

Marvel have the Punisher and Blade rights back since last year.

Daredevil is still at Fox but I don't know how long they have to make the proposed new one before the rights revert.

[Jim Ohara]

There are many things I liked about 'The Authority' but The Doctor was one of the areas where the writing got carried away.

I think the uber powers would be a bit much, but the idea of a character in touch with the entire world, and driven to drug use as a result might be interesting. Marvel loves their misfits, their band of freaks and broken things that overcome their flaws for the good of all. A drug addled or slightly mad Strange would work from a character dynamic, and perhaps that's one way of tempering his powers. However, I doubt they'd go so far as to have one of their heroes on smack - alcohol is probably the limit in terms of drug using main characters.

[Rory Abel]

I think that the character flaw for Strange would be his arrogance/god complex, he was a master surgeon after all. I would expect the first film would detail with him having to accept that he's not perfect and needs help.