192 replies to this topic

[Chris D]

There are other teams and all, but I can't think of too many solo acts that haven't been done.

Dr. Strange is the first one that comes to mind.

[Steve Sensible]

He's the first one I thought of too.

That said, there are a lot of characters that have been Avengers, but that you don't normally associate with the Avengers. He could easily have meant one of them.

[garjones]

It could be anything. The tendency is to look at the comics sales hierarchy but Men In Black and Blade have both sold bugger all comics, pre and post films, and managed a trilogy each.

[Steve Sensible]

I wouldn't consider Doctor Strange particularly high in the hierarchy though. I think he'd be an interesting one to do. The great thing about Marvel is it's such a rich universe - Strange could be a completely different type of Marvel movie to what we've seen so far.

[garjones]

I wouldn't consider Doctor Strange particularly high in the hierarchy though. I think he'd be an interesting one to do.

Yes fair point.

I do have a feeling that the 'missing' film may be something not anticipated. We've heard rumours of Strikeforce Morituri and GOTG, I do think Marvel/Disney are aware of not putting all their eggs in one basket in very similar product.

[Jim Ohara]

Dr Strange might be a bit tricky to pull off. He's never been that appealing a mainstream character, and the magic would need to be pretty impressive to compete with other sorcery movies (like Sorcerers Apprentice or Harry Potter). With that type of character you kind to move away from the aliens and science that Marvel have created. How do you deal with a character who could just transport the villain to another dimension? Strange doesn't really work in the comics either for that reason (or the SFL I may add).

I'm hoping it's Black Panther.

[Steve Sensible]

Dr Strange might be a bit tricky to pull off. He's never been that appealing a mainstream character, and the magic would need to be pretty impressive to compete with other sorcery movies (like Sorcerers Apprentice or Harry Potter). With that type of character you kind to move away from the aliens and science that Marvel have created.

You could level the same criticism at Thor. Yeah, they called it "science from another dimension" or something, but it's still just magic. I have no doubt Marvel could pull it off.

He works just fine in the comics - I guarantee there've been more Doctor Strange comics over the years than their have been Guardians of the Galaxy comics. And moving away from what they've already created is a good thing. They need to diversify so that staleness doesn't set in.

[Rory Abel]

Dr Strange might be a bit tricky to pull off. He's never been that appealing a mainstream character, and the magic would need to be pretty impressive to compete with other sorcery movies (like Sorcerers Apprentice or Harry Potter). With that type of character you kind to move away from the aliens and science that Marvel have created. How do you deal with a character who could just transport the villain to another dimension? Strange doesn't really work in the comics either for that reason (or the SFL I may add).

I'm hoping it's Black Panther.

Or they could during or right after his training so that his power isn't nearly as unlimited.

[Jim Ohara]

He works just fine in the comics - I guarantee there've been more Doctor Strange comics over the years than their have been Guardians of the Galaxy comics. And moving away from what they've already created is a good thing. They need to diversify so that staleness doesn't set in.

I don't think the number of comics published is relevant. Asguardians are aliens, not magic. So either Doctor Strange will be using alien tech for all his spells, or we'll have moved away from the 'science and magic' are one and the same foundation they had to use for Thor

And are you really worried about staleness with a movie that just broke box office records??

Or they could during or right after his training so that his power isn't nearly as unlimited.

They could make him magic-lite, so spells are difficult and what he can do has some limits, but magic is acompletely arbitrary so how do you set the universe rules for your character? He can make a house disappear, but not a skyscraper? He can levitate himself but not a car? Most of these movies do their best to establish the parameters of the character so when the drama comes along you know what the character can and can't do (like Iron Man running out of power at the end of Avengers). Usually without those boundaries you get characters that Deus Ex Machina all the time.

The other issue with magic-lite is that it'll be very unimpressive compared to other magic movies. Tony Stark building a suit to fly is impressive, Dr Strange using magic to fly is less so because Harry Potter can zoom around like Superman on his magic broomstick. I don't know if magic-lite will resonate with a general public movie audience, used to seeing the spectacular.

[Chris D]

I don't think the number of comics published is relevant. Asguardians are aliens, not magic. So either Doctor Strange will be using alien tech for all his spells, or we'll have moved away from the 'science and magic' are one and the same foundation they had to use for Thor

Well considering we're sort of responding to this quote from Kevin Fiege:

On the as-yet-unannounced movie for 2014, "Our next step will be to introduce a new character outside the Avengers' world."

I don't see why they need to stick to all the established Avengers rules.

[Rory Abel]

They could make him magic-lite, so spells are difficult and what he can do has some limits, but magic is acompletely arbitrary so how do you set the universe rules for your character? He can make a house disappear, but not a skyscraper? He can levitate himself but not a car? Most of these movies do their best to establish the parameters of the character so when the drama comes along you know what the character can and can't do (like Iron Man running out of power at the end of Avengers). Usually without those boundaries you get characters that Deus Ex Machina all the time.

Sure but that's true of everything magic movie and yet many of those worked just fine (plus the Iron Man power limit thing made no sense. His power come from his mini arc reactor. If that ran out of power he's be dead).

The other issue with magic-lite is that it'll be very unimpressive compared to other magic movies. Tony Stark building a suit to fly is impressive, Dr Strange using magic to fly is less so because Harry Potter can zoom around like Superman on his magic broomstick. I don't know if magic-lite will resonate with a general public movie audience, used to seeing the spectacular.

So go for a smaller scale picture. Was Blade less impressive because we had seen other bigger budget action films? If they ever make Ant Man it's not going to all spectacle either.

Edited by Rory Abel, 29 May 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[Johnny Henning]

I too would like to see a Doctor Strange insertion in the Marvel movieverse, but there is a drawback in that Strange hasn't really had a recent reinvention or resurgence in the Marvel comics universe. If you think about it, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor - they all had something in the comics that they could play off of. Iron Man had Adi Granov's art in one series, Captain America had Ed Brubaker's run, Thor had JMS/Ciopel plus they all had the Ultimates driving them. What has Dr Strange had in the comics recently - that Illuminati series? Really, what was the series called? The Order, maybe? The one that sort of mixed the Defenders with The Authority and had the Gray Hulk, Dr Strange, Silver Surfer, Namor and other powerhouses combining to make real changes to the status quo -- that's the most notable one I can remember.

I loved Dr Strange reprints of the Lee/Ditko period back when I was a kid, but I think he's a character that really needs to be defined first by a particular run in the comics before he goes to the big screen.

[Paul F]

There was the very good BKV/Marcos Martin mini from a few years ago, though I don't know how well that did.

[Steve Sensible]

Iron Man had Adi Granov's art in one series

I don't think a good artist makes for a defining run though.

I think Strange has had as many good runs as Iron Man. The only really defining run on Iron Man I can think of is the Michelinie/JRJR/Layton run in the 80's, and they haven't drawn on that at all for the movies. They've pieced together various elements of his entire history and turned it into one good, and one not-so-good movie.

Equally, I think there's plenty to draw on for Doctor Strange from the Strange Tales era when Ditko was drawing him, and the brilliant Roger Stern era in the early 80's.

[Rory Abel]

I don't think a good artist makes for a defining run though.

I think Strange has had as many good runs as Iron Man. The only really defining run on Iron Man I can think of is the Michelinie/JRJR/Layton run in the 80's, and they haven't drawn on that at all for the movies. They've pieced together various elements of his entire history and turned it into one good, and one not-so-good movie.

Equally, I think there's plenty to draw on for Doctor Strange from the Strange Tales era when Ditko was drawing him, and the brilliant Roger Stern era in the early 80's.

As long as Strange goes back and time and meets Benjamin Franklin the movie will do fine (and yes, that really happened in the comic, and not even in the silver age).

[Dave Wallace]

There was the very good BKV/Marcos Martin mini from a few years ago, though I don't know how well that did.

Yeah, The Oath was good - but at the same time, I don't feel like it really defined Strange in the way that Johnny is talking about. I know what he means about there not being a big, distinctive recent run on the character, but I can't see the problem with going back to the original Ditko for inspiration, and doing something psychedelic and outrageous with the character.

So if it's a character, and it's not an Avenger. . . huh. Who hasn't been an Avenger (other than some of the X-Men that they can't use)? Silver Surfer? He was in FF2 though. There are other teams and all, but I can't think of too many solo acts that haven't been done.

I think you're thinking too much along the lines of the comics. Feige probably means a character who's outside the Avengers' world in the movies, not somebody who's never been an Avenger in the comics (because that pretty much rules out everyone).

[Ogul]

Dr. Strange is the first one that comes to mind.

Dr. Strange is an Avenger, he's served on two New Avengers teams. Even so, he'd be tricky to pull off. Too wishy washy. Much like Carrol he's ill suited to a solo role. As for magic, I haven't seen Avengers yet (I know, I just don't hit theaters too often), but I did see Thor, and Loki at least seemed to know magic in that. Just because the Asgardians were presented as scif-fi aliens didn't seem to require that they weren't also magical sci-fi aliens.

[Chris D]

Dr. Strange is an Avenger, he's served on two New Avengers teams.

Almost every Marvel character has at some point been on the Avengers, so if that's the criteria we're using I have no idea who they could possibly be talking about (especially since we've got to exclude FF characters, X-Men characters, Spider-Man, and Daredevil). And I really don't think Dr. Stranger is that much more tricky to pull off than Thor. You just need to find the right people to bring it to life.

Edited by Chris D, 29 May 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[Dave Wallace]

Almost every Marvel character has at some point been on the Avengers, so if that's the criteria we're using I have no idea who they could possibly be talking about

Like I say, I think Ogul is mistaken if he thinks that's what Feige is getting at. I think the mystery 2014 character is going to simply be a Marvel solo hero who hasn't got any current connections to the movie Avengers (yet, anyway - I'm sure he or she will encounter them in the end).

[Jim Ohara]

So go for a smaller scale picture. Was Blade less impressive because we had seen other bigger budget action films?

It's not the budget that's the problem. It's the cohesion of the universe. Like I said, how do you fit a guy who can magic anything into a very science based world? The movies have very deliberately been placed in a pseudo-reality with hand wavey science behind everything (arc reactors, armor freezing up in the cold, etc). Thor is strong and controls the weather but that's about as far as he goes. Dr Strange pulls magic out his ass in most of his stories, or he magics beams that clash with other magic beams. To fit with the Marvel world you'd essentially have to make Dormammu an alien from another galaxy/reality/dimension but even then he's just going to be another Voldemort type. And isn't that what they're planning for Thanos?

I too would like to see a Doctor Strange insertion in the Marvel movieverse, but there is a drawback in that Strange hasn't really had a recent reinvention or resurgence in the Marvel comics universe. If you think about it, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor - they all had something in the comics that they could play off of. Iron Man had Adi Granov's art in one series, Captain America had Ed Brubaker's run, Thor had JMS/Ciopel plus they all had the Ultimates driving them. What has Dr Strange had in the comics recently - that Illuminati series? Really, what was the series called? The Order, maybe? The one that sort of mixed the Defenders with The Authority and had the Gray Hulk, Dr Strange, Silver Surfer, Namor and other powerhouses combining to make real changes to the status quo -- that's the most notable one I can remember.

Yeah, it's clear that the Ultimates was the template for most of the modern Marvel movies - their way or reinventing their characters for the modern cinematic age. And Dr Strange didn't make a splash in the Ultimate universe. Hell, magic in general didn't make the cut in the Ultimate universe. Not really.

Maybe they're talking about Captain Marvel (not Ms Marvel) - he was a great reinvention. There's not really very many strong solo Marvel characters left when you think about it. Dr Strange. Shang Chi. Black Panther. Moon Knight. Captain Marvel. Darkhawk. Cloak and Dagger. Quasar. Nova. Everyone else has already been done or is a spin of from one of the core franchises I think.