223 replies to this topic

[Ogul]

It's only funny because it's true.

[Arjan Dirkse]

Increasing revenue.

How?

[garjones]

How?

Taxes. In fact that's what Hollande has said he'll do.

[Christian U]

Speaking for most countries, raising upper-bracket taxes to the levels they were about ten years ago.

Of course, this doesn't work in a country like Greece, in a middle of a huge depression. The only thing you can do in that situation is beg for help, really. But not help tied to austerity measures, because that'll only drive you further down the crapper.

[Ulf Imwiehe]

Yeah, there’s always the (unthinkable to neo-liberals) option to tax the wealthy. Doesn’t have to be 75% as Hollande proposed but a little bit of tax equality might go a long way. Even in Greece.

[garjones]

Yeah, there’s always the (unthinkable to neo-liberals) option to tax the wealthy. Doesn’t have to be 75% as Hollande proposed but a little bit of tax equality might go a long way. Even in Greece.

Yes and it may be different in places but I think in most countries the defecit has been created by a combination of tax cuts and overspending and a sensible solution would be a combination of tax rises and spending cuts to reverse it.

[Ulf Imwiehe]

Can I rep this? Yes I can!

[Arjan Dirkse]

I'm totally in favor of raising the taxes. But will it completely solve the problem?

[Ulf Imwiehe]

I'm totally in favor of raising the taxes. But will it completely solve the problem?

Not all problems but it would help to bolster confidence among the middle class and lower income brackets that a less predatory kind of capitalist system might be possible. It also could help to build up some solidarity, which is essential if you want your national economy to stem the tide of depression.

[Andrew]

also, the reason you want budget surplus cycles is because if for instance you think you should shift away from a carbon economy you have the opportunity to transform your economy by borrowing large amounts of money for radical change instead of being trapped in stasis.

What, because no-one lends to countries with deficits?

Like that above article mentioned:

"In such a situation, with firms and households saving rather than spending, another sector has to pick up the slack. The obvious solution is increased government expenditure, especially on infrastructure and investment. Government deficit spending, targeted say, to education, would make British workers more productive twenty years in the future, while reducing unemployment today. It seems a no-brainer."See Australia's stimulus package - the highlight for me was the BER (Building the Education Revolution), which would be an ideal salvo for the UK and US Governments - bricks and mortar investment in every single school in the nation. New labs, new sports fields, classroom upgrades. This pumps money through every part of the construction and related industries, in every town - even if you're a plumber and you miss out on a BER project, your competitors are busy so you see a spike in business from households and businesses.

Major contruction works can take a long time - the BER started at the height of the Global Financial Crisis, some schools are still being worked on today - that's economic stimulus.

Edited by Andrew, 08 May 2012 - 11:51 PM.

[Christian U]

I'm totally in favor of raising the taxes. But will it completely solve the problem?

Well, like I said, not for a country like Greece, no. The only way to solve that problem is for the other countries to stop being resentful and to work on a proper long-term plan to rebuild Greece economy, including providing a steady influx of money from the EU for a while there. And I mean properly investing that money there, not making debt slaves out of them.

For the better-working countries, yeah, pretty much. Many economies are fine, and there's a lot of money being generated, but the states of these countries are still deep in debt (like Germany) because that money stays on the private side of the fence.

[Ogul]

Well, like I said, not for a country like Greece, no. The only way to solve that problem is for the other countries to stop being resentful and to work on a proper long-term plan to rebuild Greece economy, including providing a steady influx of money from the EU for a while there. And I mean properly investing that money there, not making debt slaves out of them.

Well, one of their own politicians had a better idea, I think, mine their borders. Just seal them in, let them work it out amongst themselves, and then maybe in a few decades check in on them and see if there's anything worth salvaging.

[Christian U]

...I think that was just a member of some nazi party being interviewed, Ogul. If you're referring to the same Daily Show thing that I'm thinking of.


Also: We can't do that, it's a great country for tourism! All the more so if they have no money, vacationing will be dirt cheap there.

Edited by Christian U, 09 May 2012 - 07:12 AM.

[Ogul]

...I think that was just a member of some nazi party being interviewed, Ogul. If you're referring to the same Daily Show thing that I'm thinking of.

I don't have to agree with everything he had to say to believe that mining their borders and locking them in until they get their #### together might be the best solution. To your room!

Also: We can't do that, it's a great country for tourism! All the more so if they have no money, vacationing will be dirt cheap there.

In theory, but they don't seem to want tourists anymore. It's a bit like Egypt or Iraq at this point, theoretically cool for tourism, but kinda scary. I say we give them a time-out, let them re-evaluate their life choices, and then we come back to them in a few years, maybe a few decades, when they are ready to come back to the global community without putting their hands out.

[David Meadows]

Sure, but why would that ever happen? Seriously, the only reason why anyone would be attacking Russia is if Russia started some shit. If Russia doesn't plan to start some shit then they have nothing to worry about.

Yeah, that's what the Iraqis thought.

[Ogul]

The Iraqis were starting shit. Not all the shit Bush accused them of, but they were still starting shit. They could have avoided the war if they wanted to, but Saddam insisted on being belligerent. I'm not saying that the war was in any was justified, just that Russia shouldn't be worried about it. Besides, even if we did put in anti-missile systems in Poland, we wouldn't use that as an opening to take out Russia. The chances of them getting some stuff through would be plenty to keep us in check. Besides, Iran doesn't have a nuke and look how little we're invading them right now.There's just no rational basis for Russia to be upset about us setting up anti-missile systems. It's like deciding that if your neighbor buys himself a bullet proof vest then you must buy yourself some AP ammo, even if there is no reason for the two of you to come into armed conflict.

[jamon g]

so a russian missile system in cuba is cool then?

[Christian U]

The Iraqis were starting shit. Not all the shit Bush accused them of, but they were still starting shit. They could have avoided the war if they wanted to, but Saddam insisted on being belligerent. I'm not saying that the war was in any was justified, just that Russia shouldn't be worried about it. Besides, even if we did put in anti-missile systems in Poland, we wouldn't use that as an opening to take out Russia. The chances of them getting some stuff through would be plenty to keep us in check. Besides, Iran doesn't have a nuke and look how little we're invading them right now.There's just no rational basis for Russia to be upset about us setting up anti-missile systems. It's like deciding that if your neighbor buys himself a bullet proof vest then you must buy yourself some AP ammo, even if there is no reason for the two of you to come into armed conflict.

Well, if you and your neighbour both have a stockpile of weapons and a history of violence (a general one, and one with each other concerning the size of your respective properties, say, and where the border should be), and he suddenly has bought a bulletproof vest one day in which he goes everywhere... yeah, I think it might be time to get some AP ammo.

[David Meadows]

Also: We can't do that, it's a great country for tourism! All the more so if they have no money, vacationing will be dirt cheap there.

According to the paper yesterday, Greece is the new destination of choice for Britons getting married. You can get the full works for £500 in greece instead of £10000 here.

[jamon g]

they smash your plates tho