223 replies to this topic

[Ogul]

Or prevent you from defending yourself from an aggressive attack. If Russia was assaulted by US or NATO forces, the missile defense in Poland or anywhere near Russia could be used against their launches on any target; not just Poland.

Sure, but why would that ever happen? Seriously, the only reason why anyone would be attacking Russia is if Russia started some shit. If Russia doesn't plan to start some shit then they have nothing to worry about.

Still, I'm not convinced missile defense is feasible when you reach a certain level of technical complexity. Against obsolete and out of date missiles, there's more reliability, but against the most advanced nuclear missiles, it's very unsure.

Then again, Russia has little to worry about, since their missiles are much better than anything Iran or NK is likely to fire. Besides, I don't think there's too much in modern missile tech that makes them harder to shoot down, at least not the long range type. They mostly just go up and come down very fast.

But geographically it seems odd. If you put it in Poland, it seems much more likely that it's got something to do with Russia, with Poland being Russia's neighbor.

Unless maybe Poland is one of the eastern-most countries in Europe that we feel comfortable placing missiles in. It's not like Poland is the only place with missile defenses planned, we also have them in Japan and the west coast. The defenses in Poland aren't to defend America, they're to defend Europe, as part of our unpaid role as "world police" that everyone else just seems to take for granted. Besides, it sounds like the primary goal of that particular installation is less PRK, and more Iran, which would be more likely to attack Europe than the US. Keep in mind, we already have more limited anti-missile capabilities in the Baltic.

.and wouldn't aiming it over the Arctic region be a shorter trajectory?

I'm not positive, but I seem to remember something about it not working that way. Relative velocities and stuff. Like even if the crow-flies route is shorter, it's not faster or easier to fire a missile that way.

[Johnny Henning]

Sure, but why would that ever happen? Seriously, the only reason why anyone would be attacking Russia is if Russia started some shit. If Russia doesn't plan to start some shit then they have nothing to worry about.

What country has invaded two foreign nations recently on that side of the world?

And now we want to put missile defense practically on their borders...? Remember what happened when Russia wanted to put missiles in Cuba?

Russia, China and the US, if not outright enemies, are still rivals for a great deal of influence over the world.

[Ogul]

What country has invaded two foreign nations recently on that side of the world?

Now you're just being silly.

And now we want to put missile defense practically on their borders...? Remember what happened when Russia wanted to put missiles in Cuba?

That was during the Cold War.

Russia, China and the US, if not outright enemies, are still rivals for a great deal of influence over the world.

Sure, but we would have no reason whatsoever to launch an attack against them, and they would have far less of a reason to launch an attack against Europe.

[Stephen Galvin]

The missile defences in Europe are merely America's first line of defence. I am by no means anti-American, as they are for the most part an admirable people, so what I say here is merely an observation in real-politik. America's presence in Europe is intended to prevent a rival power gaining access to Europe's resources in the way that Nazi Germany did. And given the disunity among Europe's 'Leaders', I am inclined to think it is a wise point of view.

[Mike]

Hollande looks likely to win in France, and the centre-left are being punished in Greece.


Can you hear Merkel screaming and sobbing? Will be interesting to see how she positions Germany after these election results.

[Christian U]

Her time's about over anyways. Germany's moving to the center-left again, too.

[Mike]

When do you get to vote?

And I reckon it'll be just as interesting for her successor; Merkel and Sarkozy have positioned their countries in very particular places with regards to the Eurozone. Unpicking that isn't going to be easy is it?

[garjones]

Sarkozy is gone from what I am reading.

[Ulf Imwiehe]

Good riddance! It’s almost as heartwarming as the day Berlusconi got his ass kicked.

[Arjan Dirkse]

It will be interesting to see what the election results mean for the EU's financial deals, with a turn to the left in France and a left wing, anti-austerity party in charge in Greece. If I was a rich investor, I'd bet on a huge market plunge tomorrow.

[Arjan Dirkse]

Sure, but why would that ever happen? Seriously, the only reason why anyone would be attacking Russia is if Russia started some shit. If Russia doesn't plan to start some shit then they have nothing to worry about.

Russia is probably one of the most invaded countries in the world, from the Mongols to the Polish to the Swedes to Napoleon to Germany in WW1 and WW2. They take their defense seriously, even if it is only for show.

[John Brook]

Good riddance Sarkozy. I voted for Francois Hollande, so I leaped with joy when I heard who is getting kicked out of the Elysée...


"casse toi pauvre con" is what Sarkozy said publicly to a civilian at one point ( f/// off you tw.t- approximately)...

Donc Nicolas, Casse Toi Pauvre Con

Edited by John Brook, 06 May 2012 - 08:04 PM.

[Mike]

Meanwhile the Golden Dawn are at 7% in the Greek election.

This is their flag:



Their policies involve care packages for the old, and the reclassification of all immigrants as lesser people.

[John Brook]

Man...That's a freaky flag. I knew they were extreme right, but I didn't think they were that fond of the Third reich !

[Arjan Dirkse]

Man...That's a freaky flag. I knew they were extreme right, but I didn't think they were that fond of the Third reich !

They're neo nazis, even do the Hitler salute and talk about the Aryan race and everything.

[John Brook]

They're neo nazis, even do the Hitler salute and talk about the Aryan race and everything.

disgusting.

My attention has been mostly monopolized by the French election(resolved) and the student protests in Quebec(soon to be resolved, with the students losing against the government...) So I missed out on the greek elections, and the return of actual neo nazi groups.

[Arjan Dirkse]

disgusting.

My attention has been mostly monopolized by the French election(resolved) and the student protests in Quebec(soon to be resolved, with the students losing against the government...) So I missed out on the greek elections, and the return of actual neo nazi groups.

It is pretty bad, yeah...

I couldn't imagine it either. Such a weird phenomenon, and so far removed from the Greece that I've seen. But that country is in a difficult situation now...it does strange things to people apparently.

[garjones]

It will be interesting to see what the election results mean for the EU's financial deals, with a turn to the left in France and a left wing, anti-austerity party in charge in Greece. If I was a rich investor, I'd bet on a huge market plunge tomorrow.

The Asian markets are already down. Not sure why though, the US have used stimulous instead of austerity and have much better growth than anyone in Europe.

[Christian U]

It is pretty bad, yeah...

I couldn't imagine it either. Such a weird phenomenon, and so far removed from the Greece that I've seen. But that country is in a difficult situation now...it does strange things to people apparently.

Yeah, given the mess that Greece and Greece politics are, I suppose this isn't all that surprising.

What a freaky flag. And what a freaky name. It's like a fictional villain version of a nazi party, like something from a comic book.


Mike, we're having general elections next year. And some of the bigger counties are having elections right now; Schleswig-Holstein has just voted, with the left winning votes although there's no clear majority for any party there now, and we're having elections here in Nordrhein-Westfalen next week, where the SPD/Die Grünen coalition who have been running a minority government are set to win the majority this time.

[jamon g]

france hasn't had a budget surplus since 1978.