223 replies to this topic

[David Meadows]

As for Le Pen, Right wingers disenchanted with Sarkozy, who'd never vote Socialist - what're they gonna do?

That's exactly what I mean, though. Parties that traditionally occupied the left or right are moving towards the centre, so if you're a traditional left/right leaning voter, the only options remaining are the parties at the extremes of the spectrum.

It happened in the UK with the Labour party. I woke up one morning and found they were no longer left wing. Now the only proper left-wing party we have is the extreme Socialist Workers Party. The SWP is actually too left wing for me... but what are my other options?

[Christian U]

That's exactly what I mean, though. Parties that traditionally occupied the left or right are moving towards the centre, so if you're a traditional left/right leaning voter, the only options remaining are the parties at the extremes of the spectrum.

It happened in the UK with the Labour party. I woke up one morning and found they were no longer left wing. Now the only proper left-wing party we have is the extreme Socialist Workers Party. The SWP is actually too left wing for me... but what are my other options?

Same thing is happening in Germany. Although another aspect of this is, I think, that people are just generally even more frustrated with politics than usual, and the major parties are bleeding voters because of it.

[garjones]

A judge in the Netherlands has upheld a new law to ban foreign tourists from entering cannabis cafes.
While soft drugs are tolerated, there is growing concern at tourists visiting just for drugs, and foreign dealers selling illegally at home.
The ban is due to start in three southern provinces next month, and go nationwide by the end of the year.
A group of cafe owners argued at The Hague district court that the ban was discriminatory against foreigners.
Under the new law, Dutch residents will still be allowed into the cafes, as long as they have valid identification, or possibly hold a new "weed pass", which is also being debated.
There are about 700 coffee shops, as they are called, in the Netherlands. The cultivation and sale of soft drugs through them is decriminalised, although not legal; police generally tolerate possession of up to five grams of cannabis.
A lawyer for the coffee shop owners said he would immediately lodge an appeal.
Michael Veling, a spokesman for the Dutch Cannabis Retailers Association, is among those challenging the government plan.
"It is going to cost me 90% of my turnover," he told the BBC World Service. "That is a very good reason for anyone to oppose any plan. Second it puts our customers in a very difficult spot, because why do you have to register to buy a substance that is still illegal?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17865151

The whole staying illegal bit is due to an agreement the US made everyone sign as part of the very sccesful 'war on drugs'.

[Ulf Imwiehe]

So Breivik whines in court about how much he despises Norwegian folk singer Lillebjørn Nilsen’s song “Barn av Regnbuen” (“Rainbow Child”) as it brainwashes children and makes them susceptible to, as he puts it, Marxist ideology. The Norwegians' response? Why, they gather by the tens of thousands all over the country and sing the asshole a little song:



The number of 40,000 in the clip refers only to Oslo btw. There were many, many more such choirs in all of Norway. Warms my heart it really does!

[jamon g]

clockwork orange

[Ogul]

So Breivik whines in court about how much he despises Norwegian folk singer Lillebjørn Nilsen’s song “Barn av Regnbuen” (“Rainbow Child”) as it brainwashes children and makes them susceptible to, as he puts it, Marxist ideology. The Norwegians' response? Why, they gather by the tens of thousands all over the country and sing the asshole a little song:

I saw that on Maddow the other night, a great way to fight the hate.

[David Chapman]

So Breivik whines in court about how much he despises Norwegian folk singer Lillebjørn Nilsen’s song “Barn av Regnbuen” (“Rainbow Child”) as it brainwashes children and makes them susceptible to, as he puts it, Marxist ideology. The Norwegians' response? Why, they gather by the tens of thousands all over the country and sing the asshole a little song:

Breivik: "See, I told you!"

[Christian U]

The Norwegians are an amazing people.

A judge in the Netherlands has upheld a new law to ban foreign tourists from entering cannabis cafes.

Well, damn.

The whole staying illegal bit is due to an agreement the US made everyone sign as part of the very sccesful 'war on drugs'.

Really? I didn't know that. Man, why do they always have to spoil it for everyone?

(Which I say in the wake of being told by a colleague about a parent of a pupil in her class suffering from PTSD after returning from Afghanistan, where we never should have been in the first place.)

Edited by Christian U, 28 April 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[garjones]

Really? I didn't know that.

Yes it's a 1988 UN Convention they authored and sponsored at the height of the Reagan 'War on Drugs' era that makes it mandatory to “adopt such measures as may be necessary to establish as criminal offences under its domestic law”. 182 countries signed it.

So rather than ruffle feathers and break the agreement the common workaround is to just not enforce the law or interpret it in a different way but to actually legalise them is against UN rules.

[Christian U]

Great. We can't get international co-operation on the billion things that matter and that would be really urgent to ensure our societies working in the future, not to mention keep the planet habitable for our species, but when it comes to us not getting the good stuff, they can all agree.

[Ulf Imwiehe]

Russia warns on missile defence deal with Nato and US:

Russia says it is prepared to use "destructive force pre-emptively" if the US goes ahead with controversial plans for a missile defence system based in Central Europe.
The warning came after the Russian defence minister said talks on missile defence were nearing a dead end.
Moscow fears that missile interceptors would be a threat to Russia's security.
But the US and Nato say they are intended to protect against attacks from Iran or North Korea.
"A decision to use destructive force pre-emptively will be taken if the situation worsens," chief of the Russian defence staff Gen Nikolai Makarov said. [...]

Is it me or has it just gotten colder?

[Arjan Dirkse]

Russia warns on missile defence deal with Nato and US:



Is it me or has it just gotten colder?

Yeah it's a very weird thing. I am almost inclined to agree with Russia, I mean a missile defence shield in Poland to stop rockets from North Korea or Iran seems ridiculous.

[garjones]

Russia warns on missile defence deal with Nato and US:

Is it me or has it just gotten colder?

After watching the documenary Putin, Russia and The West they do play this dance. There's a section all about pretty much the exact same argument 10 years ago and it lead to an agreement for both sides to cut nukes.

[Ulf Imwiehe]

I’m sure there’s a lot of saber-rattling going on but the harsh tonality is pretty unsettling.

[Johnny Henning]

Yeah it's a very weird thing. I am almost inclined to agree with Russia, I mean a missile defence shield in Poland to stop rockets from North Korea or Iran seems ridiculous.

Very true - on top of that, is there any evidence missile shields would work? Seems like this entails a lot of money going to very expensive and unproven weapons technology.

[Johnny Henning]

The entire Chen Guangcheng fiasco just reminds me that the Chinese regime is, you know, basically extremely evil and oppressive, and we really should seriously work toward unhitching our economy from reliance on theirs unless that changes.

[Ogul]

Yeah it's a very weird thing. I am almost inclined to agree with Russia, I mean a missile defence shield in Poland to stop rockets from North Korea or Iran seems ridiculous.

I don't see why. Evidence suggests that North Korea has the technology to attempt to fire a missile that could hit the US west coast, if they can do that they could probably hit Europe. Now of course it'd likely fail, but you can't gamble with such things, if they fire it you need to be prepared. Iran's building longer and longer range missiles all the time, so having a defense against them is far from ridiculous. What's ridiculous is claiming that having defensive missiles available is a threat to your own national defense, all it could possibly do is prevent you from blowing them up.

[David Meadows]

pretty much the exact same argument 10 years ago

That explains my feeling of deja vu.

[Johnny Henning]

I don't see why. Evidence suggests that North Korea has the technology to attempt to fire a missile that could hit the US west coast, if they can do that they could probably hit Europe. Now of course it'd likely fail, but you can't gamble with such things, if they fire it you need to be prepared. Iran's building longer and longer range missiles all the time, so having a defense against them is far from ridiculous. What's ridiculous is claiming that having defensive missiles available is a threat to your own national defense, all it could possibly do is prevent you from blowing them up.

Or prevent you from defending yourself from an aggressive attack. If Russia was assaulted by US or NATO forces, the missile defense in Poland or anywhere near Russia could be used against their launches on any target; not just Poland.

Still, I'm not convinced missile defense is feasible when you reach a certain level of technical complexity. Against obsolete and out of date missiles, there's more reliability, but against the most advanced nuclear missiles, it's very unsure.

[Arjan Dirkse]

I don't see why. Evidence suggests that North Korea has the technology to attempt to fire a missile that could hit the US west coast, if they can do that they could probably hit Europe. Now of course it'd likely fail, but you can't gamble with such things, if they fire it you need to be prepared. Iran's building longer and longer range missiles all the time, so having a defense against them is far from ridiculous. What's ridiculous is claiming that having defensive missiles available is a threat to your own national defense, all it could possibly do is prevent you from blowing them up.

But geographically it seems odd. If you put it in Poland, it seems much more likely that it's got something to do with Russia, with Poland being Russia's neighbor. If North Korea would fire a rocket at the US it won't go over Polish airspace (although I admit that with North Korean targeting systems you never know ) If they fire one at Europe, well maybe it might go over Polish airspace, but that seems like such a remote possibility...and wouldn't aiming it over the Arctic region be a shorter trajectory? They could put up a missile defence shield in the North of Norway, perhaps.