199 replies to this topic

[Chris D]

Seriously. Masie Williams is an amazing talent, even moreso given her age. She stood her ground with Charles fucking Dance!

She's been killing it since the series started, as far as I'm concerned. I love every scene with her in it. Great find by the casting directors of the show. And I'm really glad they put her and Charles Dance in some scenes together. Really fun to watch.

[The Lorcan Nagle]

Power is a curious thing. The power you're supplying, it's electrifying.

That got a +1 from me.

[Adam Wednesdays]

The only thing that didn't quite work for me was right at the beginning. Renley's murder. It felt more like something to end the previous episode with? When that shadow-creature appeared last week we knew it was going after Renley, the big suspense would be what happened afterwards.

I was absolutely convinced that they were going to end the last episode with Renley's death; it just seemed like the natural thing to do. Glad I'm not the only one.

Seriously. Masie Williams is an amazing talent, even moreso given her age. She stood her ground with Charles fucking Dance!

She's been controlling every scene she's in from the first time she appeared on screen, with very little apparent effort. That's a rare quality in an actor, let alone a child actor.

How many people two to three times her age could believably stare down Charles Dance and win? Not many.

That got a +1 from me.

Indeed.

[Ogul]

/second the kudos for Arya's performance. I also loved her new French (?) assassin, and Cersie's boy toy is hilarious. I actually was surprised by the shadow thing a bit, I figured it would do more than just assassination, like full massacre of the camp or something, but this definitely was the smarter play. The fire pots were an interesting trick, but the plan to use them was foolish for the reasons Tyrion laid out. That said, a far better application would be as mines, just bury them lightly in the ground all over the approaches to the city, and tether them in the harbor as well. That way there would be no chance of them exploding within the walls.

Bran's vision? Is that the Greyjoy's or Stannis' fleet? If I'm following this properly I guess its the Greyjoys?

Definitely the Greyjoys, it was "the sea" invading, they're the sea. If it was Stannis it would likely be fire instead.

[Sarah Horrocks]

Definitely the Greyjoys, it was "the sea" invading, they're the sea. If it was Stannis it would likely be fire instead.

Also the drowned men reference is also I believe a reference to the greyjoys and their drowned men. Plus we know the greyjoys are about. Stannis is still down south taking on kings landing.

[steveuk]

/second the kudos for Arya's performance. I also loved her new French (?) assassin, and Cersie's boy toy is hilarious. I actually was surprised by the shadow thing a bit, I figured it would do more than just assassination, like full massacre of the camp or something, but this definitely was the smarter play. The fire pots were an interesting trick, but the plan to use them was foolish for the reasons Tyrion laid out. That said, a far better application would be as mines, just bury them lightly in the ground all over the approaches to the city, and tether them in the harbor as well. That way there would be no chance of them exploding within the walls.

<SNIP>

I think Martin, or the producers, were forcing things a bit there.

Incendiary weapons pre-date the medieval period in the real world. The most famous is 'Greek Fire' but there were plenty of variations.

They had drawbacks (including everything Bronn said) but they existed, they were used and they could be very effective, even when thrown buy catapults and trebuchets.

[Ogul]

Incendiary weapons pre-date the medieval period in the real world. The most famous is 'Greek Fire' but there were plenty of variations.

They had drawbacks (including everything Bronn said) but they existed, they were used and they could be very effective, even when thrown buy catapults and trebuchets.

Sure, but maybe I wasn't paying enough attention during the sales pitch, but I gathered that the "witchfire" they were using were either highly exaggerated on the part of the alchemist, as you seem to suggest, or they actually were magical fire that behaved well above and beyond the properties of scientific equivalents like Greek Fire and thermite. Since the show also features zombies, dragons, and shadow assassins I take them at their word unless given reason to think otherwise, so I would plan on the assumption that this is magical superfire we're dealing with.

[steveuk]

There's no magic in Westeros anymore.

The dragons are dead, the Maesters can study spells but no-one has made one work for generations, even the Night's Watch spend their time dealing with Wildlings instead of White Walkers...

Or at least they did. Magic is coming back but its taking its time.

Whatever "Wildfire" is, its not far removed from what real chemistry can create, if its removed at all?

[Jake]

Yeah, but the dragons aren't dead any more, remember?

[The Lorcan Nagle]

Sure, but maybe I wasn't paying enough attention during the sales pitch, but I gathered that the "witchfire" they were using were either highly exaggerated on the part of the alchemist, as you seem to suggest, or they actually were magical fire that behaved well above and beyond the properties of scientific equivalents like Greek Fire and thermite. Since the show also features zombies, dragons, and shadow assassins I take them at their word unless given reason to think otherwise, so I would plan on the assumption that this is magical superfire we're dealing with.

This is gone into in a bit more detail in the book:

Spoiler

Witchfire is indeed magical in nature, imagine if you could make napalm when everyone else has greek fire. The Pyromancers were able to make it very easily in the age of magic, but their abilities waned after the last Dragons died. It still caught fire, but was nowhere near as effective. Since the Dragons returned it's become easier to make successfully, and what they have stored up is notably more effective

[steveuk]

Yeah, but the dragons aren't dead any more, remember?

You know that, I know that, some people across the sea from Westeros know that but word hasn't reached King's Landing yet.

As I said, magic is returning slowly.

This is gone into in a bit more detail in the book:

Spoiler

Witchfire is indeed magical in nature, imagine if you could make napalm when everyone else has greek fire. The Pyromancers were able to make it very easily in the age of magic, but their abilities waned after the last Dragons died. It still caught fire, but was nowhere near as effective. Since the Dragons returned it's become easier to make successfully, and what they have stored up is notably more effective

I don't think that's a spoiler is it? Just something the producers chose to downplay or sideline?

[Ogul]

This is gone into in a bit more detail in the book:

Thanks, that's what I thought, pretty much. Not "spell casting", but alchemical, chemistry that defies the laws of physics to do remarkable things.

[Jake]

You know that, I know that, some people across the sea from Westeros know that but word hasn't reached King's Landing yet.

As I said, magic is returning slowly.


I don't think that's a spoiler is it? Just something the producers chose to downplay or sideline?

I was kind of afraid to touch on that without spoiling. I think it's more that the pyromancers know it's working better again but don't know why.

[The Lorcan Nagle]

I don't think that's a spoiler is it? Just something the producers chose to downplay or sideline?

I was being on the safe side.

Thanks, that's what I thought, pretty much. Not "spell casting", but alchemical, chemistry that defies the laws of physics to do remarkable things.

More or less. It's sorta like this:

[Sarah Horrocks]

You know that, I know that, some people across the sea from Westeros know that but word hasn't reached King's Landing yet.

As I said, magic is returning slowly.

Slowly? It seems to be returning rapidly. Dragons to the south. Zombies to the north. White walkers ripping peoples heads off in the snow last season. They say Rob can turn into a wolf or rides his wolf into battle. Wildfire under the capitol city. Oh and shadow ghost demons carrying out assassinations. We've even got what seem to be pretty powerful warlocks down in the desert.

The magic is downplayed, but it definitely exists. Beyond just a science that they don't understand. Like real swords and sorcery genre magic.

[steveuk]

Slowly? It seems to be returning rapidly. Dragons to the south. Zombies to the north. White walkers ripping peoples heads off in the snow last season. They say Rob can turn into a wolf or rides his wolf into battle. Wildfire under the capitol city. Oh and shadow ghost demons carrying out assassinations. We've even got what seem to be pretty powerful warlocks down in the desert.

The magic is downplayed, but it definitely exists. Beyond just a science that they don't understand. Like real swords and sorcery genre magic.

Tiny dragons hardly anyone has heard of yet, let alone seen. So small they can barely singe a mouthful of steak to feed themselves.

The zombies in the north aren't at zompocalypse numbers either. Again, a few people know about them but we're in double figures there, no more.

The same with the White Walkers and there's been a grand total of one shadow-demon attack so far. Only a few people know what happened to Renley, no-one else even suspects magic.

Rob isn't really the North's Teenwolf either.

The point has been made several times that magic is something from the past. Tyrion mocked it, Maester Luwin dismisses it, Cersei ignores warnings and with good reason.

Westeros (and beyond) have plenty of superstitions but for centuries that's all they've been.

And that's important to the plot. If magic was still real in this world, rare and precious but available, then it would be used and feared in a way that it simply isn't by the main characters. Most Maesters don't study spells, the Warlocks are assumed to be faking their "tricks" and The Wall is undermanned and under-maintained.

The slow, scattered return of magic is going to have a bigger effect because its slow and scattered. For now.

Winter is coming.

[The Lorcan Nagle]

A big part of why Magic looks to be powerful and all-encompassing is that we, the viewers see everything, and we're following all the important events of the world. If there's millions of people in Westeros, and of them there's one priestess who can perform spells, a handful of pyromancers who can suddenly and inexpicaby make better magefire, one child having weird dreams, and some weird shit beyond the wall, that's not very much magic. To us it's out of proportion because it's important to the story.

[Christian U]

I'm loving Arya's scenes, too. Her weird assissin guy is great, as is the giant woman knight person Kat has gotten herself. I was a bit shocked at Renley's death, things are moving so damn swiftly... the thing that worries me most at the moment are the Greyjoys, really. I mean... Stannis in in thrall to what is clearly a really bad kind of evil, but, well, he and the Lannisters deserve each other, don't they? Robb might even just draw out of the whole thing at some point and let them fight it out, or join Stannis for the promise of being left alone, the way he might have done with Renley. But the Grejoys will tear his kingdom apart while he's gone, and then what?

[steveuk]

I'm loving Arya's scenes, too. Her weird assissin guy is great, as is the giant woman knight person Kat has gotten herself. I was a bit shocked at Renley's death, things are moving so damn swiftly... the thing that worries me most at the moment are the Greyjoys, really. I mean... Stannis in in thrall to what is clearly a really bad kind of evil, but, well, he and the Lannisters deserve each other, don't they? Robb might even just draw out of the whole thing at some point and let them fight it out, or join Stannis for the promise of being left alone, the way he might have done with Renley. But the Grejoys will tear his kingdom apart while he's gone, and then what?

Stannis wont make that promise. He might be playing Cersei's game of thrones for a different reason but's playing it the way she described; win or die.

As for the Greyjoys, Robb's going to have to make a choice; the Lannisters or his homeland? Unless something unexpected happens.

But if Robb goes after the Greyjoys, with the whole of the North behind him, I would expect him to smash them utterly, but not quickly.

[Ricardo_C]

Joffrey-slapping episode! Drinks are on me!

Having Ser Rodrik die during Theon's takeover was a powerful change from the books. And Theon's botching the job brought home the ugliness of his treason much more strongly than if they had stuck to the books, where mostly tertiary Winterfell denizens suffer the consequences of Theon's excesses.

Glad to see Roose is becoming more prominent, and that Ramsay got a mention, as I feared they might blend them into one character to streamline the plot.

Sansa's near-rape was very disturbing, especially considering how young the actress is. Clegane's rescue was almost cathartic. Great job with the chemistry between those two.

Really like the way they're handling Robb and Talissa. Once again, a welcome change.

Arya and Tywin owned their scenes together once more. Curse you, show, for making me like TV Tywin!

And Jamie's dyslexic? Who knew?

Jon Snow may know nothing, but I think he's about to get to know morning wood really well.

Edited by Ricardo_C, 07 May 2012 - 03:48 AM.