179 replies to this topic

[Rory Abel]

I actually think that's a cracking idea. Maybe going a bit into Valeyard territory, but I think I'd prefer it if it was just a regular, well-meaning future-Doctor who is forced into it somehow. It could be even more dramatic for the current Doctor to be haunted by the past events because he knows that he's actually going to have to go and do it at some point in his own personal future.

Yeah that was more my thinking as well.

I can see the scale could be an issue but not mentioning his future self was there isn't really. That's what he does all the time, hand out those vague snippets of what went on in the past, which is why I thought McGann could fit even though at face value you'd say it was Ecclestone's Doctor that was there.

That's fair enough. Though my impression always was that it was in fact McGann, not Ecclestone, who was there. In the first episode of the new series it's pretty clear that he's only just regenerated. There's the scene where he looks in the mirror and checks out his new features.

[garjones]

That's fair enough. Though my impression always was that it was in fact McGann, not Ecclestone, who was there. In the first episode of the new series it's pretty clear that he's only just regenerated. There's the scene where he looks in the mirror and checks out his new features.

Which is always a slight issue with the show and multi-doctor episodes as they always seem to be surprised by their new features even though subsequent stories show they knew what they were going to look like anyway. Doctors 1 and 2 knew they were going to look like Pertwee, Doctors 1,2,3 and 4 knew they were going to look like Davidson, Doctors 2,3,4 and 5 knew they were going to look like Colin Baker and Doctors 5,6,7,8 and 9 knew they were going to look like David Tennant.

There's probably some fudge written somewhere that explained a temporal memory loss or something. I don't really care as I've said many times that one of my favourite things about the show is it really isn't that bothered about it all fitting together and getting very anal about continuity like Star Trek. That is probably the opposite of the desires of many sci-fi fans but it seems to have worked out okay and a reason it gets a lot of mainstream success. They can always write a spinoff book or comic to explain things to keep that faction happy and then, as they do, refuse to say if anything is canon or not and let you decide.

[Rory Abel]

Which is always a slight issue with the show and multi-doctor episodes as they always seem to be surprised by their new features even though subsequent stories show they knew what they were going to look like anyway. Doctors 1 and 2 knew they were going to look like Pertwee, Doctors 1,2,3 and 4 knew they were going to look like Davidson, Doctors 2,3,4 and 5 knew they were going to look like Colin Baker and Doctors 5,6,7,8 and 9 knew they were going to look like David Tennant.

My assumption was that they didn't know the order they would regenerate in so it was still a shock seeing a new face each time. Otherwise I never really gave it much thought.

[garjones]

My assumption was that they didn't know the order they would regenerate in so it was still a shock seeing a new face each time. Otherwise I never really gave it much thought.

I think in some cases they know and others they don't but I agree not giving it too much thought is the best bet.

[David Chapman]

I think in some cases they know and others they don't.

Any Doctor who participated in a multi-Doctor story de facto knows what he's going to look like at some point in the future, though...

[garjones]

Any Doctor who participated in a multi-Doctor story de facto knows what he's going to look like at some point in the future, though...

Agreed but I think in some like the 3 Doctors they know the specific order. With something like 5 and 10 for the CIN special I'm not so sure without checking back on the dialogue.

[The Lorcan Nagle]

Yeah, 10 would know that 5 was.. well, 5. But 5 only knew that he'd look like 10 in the future.

[Rory Abel]

Yeah, 10 would know that 5 was.. well, 5. But 5 only knew that he'd look like 10 in the future.

And when he finally did look like 10 there's still the shock of transforming into a new person so he might not even register any recognition.

[The Lorcan Nagle]

Exactly. I wonder if the Doctor's known for some time that his final incarnation will be ginger, and that's whay he's always obsessed with finding out whether he is or not each regeneration.

[craggy]

Any Doctor who participated in a multi-Doctor story de facto knows what he's going to look like at some point in the future, though...

except they don't necessarily do they? I mean...hasn't there been at least one possible future version of The Doctor who (so far at least) hasn't been real?

[danabel]

Exactly. I wonder if the Doctor's known for some time that his final incarnation will be ginger, and that's whay he's always obsessed with finding out whether he is or not each regeneration.

His Merlyn incarnation is ginger, right? He'd be excited to find out that he's due to spend a couple of hundred years ageing backwards or summet

[John Mosby]

except they don't necessarily do they? I mean...hasn't there been at least one possible future version of The Doctor who (so far at least) hasn't been real?

In most cases, there seems to have been mention that the older Doctors won't remember the meeting for some reason.

[craggy]

maybe he (future/present Doctor) has a flashy thing he uses on them(past/guest-star Doctor/s)?

[Ogul]

I can easily believe it's a kind of fugue thing, a natural defense mechanism that prevents a Timelord from retaining memories of his future self, kind of like with repressed memories or multiple personalities. It would also explain why if you have Doctor X and Doctor X+1 teaming up, Doctor X+1 wouldn't already know exactly how the adventure turns out. Basically, any time two or more Doctors team up, they do their thing, go their separate ways, and then promptly enough forget that it ever happened, except perhaps some vague memory that something happened.

[Rory Abel]

I can easily believe it's a kind of fugue thing, a natural defense mechanism that prevents a Timelord from retaining memories of his future self, kind of like with repressed memories or multiple personalities. It would also explain why if you have Doctor X and Doctor X+1 teaming up, Doctor X+1 wouldn't already know exactly how the adventure turns out. Basically, any time two or more Doctors team up, they do their thing, go their separate ways, and then promptly enough forget that it ever happened, except perhaps some vague memory that something happened.

The problem with that is if you consider the child in need video canon (which does seem to be the implication since they went to the effort of fitting it inbetween shots of the finale) where the problem is solved by the #10 remembering when he was #5 and witnessing #10 solve the problem and repeating that.

I think the easier explanation is that the older doctor remembers how the scenario played out when they were the younger doctor and so just play along since they can't change events in their own timeline.

Edited by Rory Abel, 30 November 2011 - 03:28 AM.

[John Mosby]

The only problem with 'New Who' is that several stories need one understanding of cause and effect / the way time-travel pans out to make them work, while others need it to work in a different way to make sense of the plot as well. There is sometimes the feeling that TPTB seem to want their cake and eat it in that regard and that the rules merely change from week to week in aid of delivering a good story for an hour, rather with any consistency/continuity.

[garjones]

There is sometimes the feeling that TPTB seem to want their cake and eat it in that regard and that the rules merely change from week to week in aid of delivering a good story for an hour, rather with any consistency/continuity.

I don't think it's a feeling, I think it's true. Delivering a good story always trumps the 'rules'.

Personally I think it's a very good strategy. You have to be conscious of not 'nuking the fridge' but I think, as comics have found out, trying to present consistent arguments over 48 years doesn't really work very well. Doctor Who doesn't need a reboot or retcons most of the time because it leaves as much as possible quite vague.

So we as viewers are sat here finding reasons one or another idea may work, they won't address it head on, they rarely have.

[Dave Wallace]

I think that story taking precedence over absolute consistency is probably the right way to go. But it can't help but raise questions when something happens like it did in the final episode of Moffat's first season where the Doctor essentially escaped from an inescapable trap by coming back in time to let himself out so that he could go back in time and let himself out (Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey has a lot to answer for).

When something like that has happened, you can't help but wonder what's to stop him doing that every time he gets in trouble?

[garjones]

From Steven Moffat: "To clarify: any Doctor Who movie would be made by the BBC team, star the current TV Doctor and certainly NOT be a Hollywood reboot.


Okay so that puts all that speculation to bed.

As I said before I think they are looking at the success of The Inbetweeners here. A TV spin off that made seriously crazy money, someone's going to try and copy it.

[David Meadows]

From Steven Moffat: "To clarify: any Doctor Who movie would be made by the BBC team, star the current TV Doctor and certainly NOT be a Hollywood reboot.

I don't think Moffat is in charge of BBC licensing decisions. He might wish that were true, and his voice may have some sway, but ultimately he's not the person who decides whether to sell Doctor Who rights to Hollywood or not.